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erifah |
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Post subject: Misunderestimated presidents...
 Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 08:32 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33574-2002Nov9.html
This quote from the article rings soooooo true.... "Whenever Democrats complain about Bush's intelligence and judgment, they are making a mistake similar to the one Republicans made by relentlessly attacking former president Bill Clinton's private life in the late 1990s. In both cases, the attacks bleed over to implicate the voters who chose these men. And voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions." |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 08:42 PM
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| erifah wrote: | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33574-2002Nov9.html
This quote from the article rings soooooo true.... "Whenever Democrats complain about Bush's intelligence and judgment, they are making a mistake similar to the one Republicans made by relentlessly attacking former president Bill Clinton's private life in the late 1990s. In both cases, the attacks bleed over to implicate the voters who chose these men. And voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions." |
*snort* There's a great big difference in trusting the country to a guy who can't keep his zipper zipped, but is really clever, and one who may not boff the interns but is at best of average intelligence. I see brightness as much more important here than conforming to some Bible thumper's notions of sexual morality (is it any of our business what sort of relationship he and Hilary have decided on? Do we know it includes monogamy?).
And if those who elected GWB are insulted by my view, tough. Maybe they should be.
Diane |
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jbrenner |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 08:44 PM
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| erifah wrote: | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33574-2002Nov9.html
This quote from the article rings soooooo true.... "Whenever Democrats complain about Bush's intelligence and judgment, they are making a mistake similar to the one Republicans made by relentlessly attacking former president Bill Clinton's private life in the late 1990s. In both cases, the attacks bleed over to implicate the voters who chose these men. And voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions." |
This assumes of course the Republicans were wrong re - Clinton.
At the risk of embarking on some moral diatribe, it is not (was not)
in the case of Clinton, unreasonable to argue his moral character
made him unfit to lead.
Ask yourself this. Will a man who lies to his family and cheats on
his family, be honest with the nation?
I don't mind that Dubya is rough around the edges and not the
sharpest tac in the box but, he governs by conviction not
by consensus.
jb |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 08:54 PM
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| jbrenner wrote: | | erifah wrote: | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33574-2002Nov9.html
This quote from the article rings soooooo true.... "Whenever Democrats complain about Bush's intelligence and judgment, they are making a mistake similar to the one Republicans made by relentlessly attacking former president Bill Clinton's private life in the late 1990s. In both cases, the attacks bleed over to implicate the voters who chose these men. And voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions." |
This assumes of course the Republicans were wrong re - Clinton.
At the risk of embarking on some moral diatribe, it is not (was not)
in the case of Clinton, unreasonable to argue his moral character
made him unfit to lead.
Ask yourself this. Will a man who lies to his family and cheats on
his family, be honest with the nation?
I don't mind that Dubya is rough around the edges and not the
sharpest tac in the box but, he governs by conviction not
by consensus.
jb |
First, we don't have any direct evidence that Clinton lied to his family. I don't think it would have been appropriate for him to discuss his sex life with his teenaged daughter, so what she was or wasn't told is not something we should consider. Given the number of affairs he's alleged to have had, my guess is that Hilary was at least aware of the situation if not accepting of it. They may be one of those "separate lives" couples. She has not divorced him, despite the fact that it would probably help her political career to do so. Their marriage is none of our business.
Sex in this country is such a taboo subject, particularly if one is president, that I don't think Clinton could get away with saying "my wife and I have a don't ask, don't tell policy on these sorts of things." Rather than just say, you know, that's really none of your business, he deflects things by lying. *shrug* I don't think that means he'd lie about other things. If you tell your girlfriend the dress she has on doesn't make her look fat, when it does, does that mean you lie about everything? Or that you have the good sense to know how to avoid a pointless argument? How many similar social lies do we tell? Give the guy a break. He's supposed to be upholding the Constitution. I haven't noticed the Oath of Office requiring he be monogamous and inform everyone if he's not.
Diane |
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jbrenner |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 08:59 PM
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| *diane* wrote: | | erifah wrote: | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33574-2002Nov9.html
This quote from the article rings soooooo true.... "Whenever Democrats complain about Bush's intelligence and judgment, they are making a mistake similar to the one Republicans made by relentlessly attacking former president Bill Clinton's private life in the late 1990s. In both cases, the attacks bleed over to implicate the voters who chose these men. And voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions." |
*snort* There's a great big difference in trusting the country to a guy who can't keep his zipper zipped, but is really clever, and one who may not boff the interns but is at best of average intelligence. I see brightness as much more important here than conforming to some Bible thumper's notions of sexual morality (is it any of our business what sort of relationship he and Hilary have decided on? Do we know it includes monogamy?).
And if those who elected GWB are insulted by my view, tough. Maybe they should be.
Diane |
Hilary schmilary .. what kind of man puts his young daughter
through that kind of a nightmare. Furthermore the issue with Clinton goes beyond morality and has everything to do with honesty. As for the moral issue, it frightens me that so many buy into the lefts view that common decency is abnormal behaviour.
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tj03a |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:11 PM
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Well I for one don't really care about Slick Willy's extra marital affairs but I do personally believe that he has on several occasions crossed the 'NO' line and is technically a rapist. That is mere opinion on my part. There is something rather interesting on the whole Clinton sex scandal though. In all reality and honesty it really was nobody elses business. The fact that despite this the man who went before the nation with the line 'I smoked pot but didn't inhale' while smiling and winking at us felt compelled to lie before the nation about sex. If he was so smart why didn't he just say something along the lines of 'It's none of your business and I refuse to answer in that it has no bearing on the case at hand'. That answer would have been at the very least respectable and truthful. So by that alone in my opinion Clinton is either an idiot in the court room or such a liar that he lies even when he doesn't need to and it's in his best interests not to lie. This also pretty much makes him a hypocrite seeing how he once claimed that if a President of the United States ever lied to the public he should resign'. He didn't put any conditions on that back then but sure changed his tune when he was caught lying to all of us.
In my book if he lies about stuff he doesn't have to that pretty much means he lies about lots of other stuff too. The whole sex scandal bit in court was basically a last gasp of desperation on Ken Starrs part since the clintons had managed to succuesfully block and hamper any sort of investigation in every way they could to the point where I'd be surprised if they themselves even know the truth about all the illegal acts they've pulled.
As far as the comparable intelligence between Dubya and Slick it's pretty safe to say that Bill is a bit smarter than GeorgeW but at the same time Bill is not quite the genius many people would like to believe and GeorgeW is not quite the idiot many think. Anyone convinced otherwise has probably been reading the Lovenstein Institute hoax e-mail too much. I haven't been able to find any actual numbers on the IQs of any of the presidents but this is my favorite on the Lovenstein hoax
http://www.backwoodshome.com/columns/silveira010729.html
I really don't see why anyone really supports either of the two other than GeorgeW is currently the President and we are in times of trouble and should be given some support for that alone. In reality they both seem more than willing to screw us over for their friends. GeorgeW's friends as far as that is concerned are primarily guys in big business while Bills seem to be somewhat unfriendly countries like China and apparently a lot of guys who used to be in jail considering his pardons. I'm also pretty sure that Bill has plenty of his own friends in big business too. As far as I can tell in the end pretty much ALL politicians listen to the guys with the money first. |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:15 PM
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| jbrenner wrote: |
Hilary schmilary .. what kind of man puts his young daughter
through that kind of a nightmare. Furthermore the issue with Clinton goes beyond morality and has everything to do with honesty. As for the moral issue, it frightens me that so many buy into the lefts view that common decency is abnormal behaviour.
jb |
Is it Clinton who put his daughter through that nightmare, or Ken Starr? If people had accepted from the get-go that his sex life was not the public's business, there'd be no problem.
Common decency.... that's a funny term, not because I'm on the left, but because I've got so much anthropology background. In some places common decency means you also marry your wife's sister. But, you're entitled to your opinion.
Diane |
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erifah |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:16 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
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| *diane* wrote: |
...And if those who elected GWB are insulted by my view, tough. Maybe they should be.
Diane |
*erifah hopes and prays that more & more Democratic candidates hire campaign managers with Diane's attitude...* |
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erifah |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:25 PM
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| jbrenner wrote: | | erifah wrote: | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33574-2002Nov9.html
This quote from the article rings soooooo true.... "Whenever Democrats complain about Bush's intelligence and judgment, they are making a mistake similar to the one Republicans made by relentlessly attacking former president Bill Clinton's private life in the late 1990s. In both cases, the attacks bleed over to implicate the voters who chose these men. And voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions." |
...This assumes of course the Republicans were wrong re - Clinton.
jb |
Actually, I don't think that it rests on that assumption. I'd say that, whether the allegatons are true or not, voters don't like to be hectored about their decisions. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:28 PM
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tj--
Good points.
I voted for Clinton more because of party platform than anything. We're so often confronted with those lesser of two evils situations in the polls.
Clinton reminds me of a sometimes friend of mine who is bright, but tends to do more thinking with the little head and less with the big. It's difficult to remain loyal as a friend to someone who is such a repeat offender as a dumbass, and at some point you just stop bothering. I imagine Clinton has alienated a lot of people over the years, and it's a wonder his wife hasn't been on the official list.
Diane |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:31 PM
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| erifah wrote: | | *diane* wrote: |
...And if those who elected GWB are insulted by my view, tough. Maybe they should be.
Diane |
*erifah hopes and prays that more & more Democratic candidates hire campaign managers with Diane's attitude...* |
*grin*
Diane |
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erifah |
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Post subject: Re: Misunderestimated presidents...
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:33 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
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Is it Clinton who put his daughter through that nightmare, or Ken Starr? If people had accepted from the get-go that his sex life was not the public's business, there'd be no problem.
The fault is Mr. Clinton's.
It was he who decided to lie about the sexual conduct during judicial proceedings. It wouldn't have mattered what it was that he lied about, whether it was sex with Ms. Lewinsky or how many Big Macs he consumed one day at the local McDonalds; the point is, he lied in an effort to deny a fellow citizen her day in court. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:34 PM
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| " Misunderestimated" is the kind of malapropism I'd expect to hear straight from W's thin lips. As far as lying goes, he claims to be against big government interferring in people's lives. Here is his record and it says he's lying... |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:39 PM
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| bongborg wrote: | | " Misunderestimated" is the kind of malapropism I'd expect to hear straight from W's thin lips. As far as lying goes, he claims to be against big government interferring in people's lives. Here is his record and it says he's lying... |
It is a quote from my man Dubya from the 2000 campaign: "They misunderestimated me."
And I don't see anything in that link shows Bush has lied about anything. You have to recall that the US presidency is not a dictatorship, and we currently have a group of people I like to refer to as "the Democrats" who make it impossible for Republicans to achieve all of their goals.
(Fortunately, Republicans have been able to thwart the Democrats from achieving many of their goals as well...) |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:52 PM
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| I thought it had a familiar ring to it... are you going to continue to emulate Dubya's mangling of the English language? Perhaps you will also forget everything you know about any country but the US to further imitate your hero. Hey, I hear they have black people in Brazil. Forget I said that. Hey, I know, you can practice choking on pretzels... |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:56 PM
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| bongborg wrote: |
...Hey, I hear they have black people in Brazil. Forget I said that.
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That may be difficult to do, if you meant by saying it, what I think you meant by it. If so, you just crossed a BIG line.
Perhaphs you should clarify your remarks so there will be no misunderstandings.... |
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tj03a |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 09:57 PM
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| *diane* wrote: | tj--
Good points.
I voted for Clinton more because of party platform than anything. We're so often confronted with those lesser of two evils situations in the polls.
Clinton reminds me of a sometimes friend of mine who is bright, but tends to do more thinking with the little head and less with the big. It's difficult to remain loyal as a friend to someone who is such a repeat offender as a dumbass, and at some point you just stop bothering. I imagine Clinton has alienated a lot of people over the years, and it's a wonder his wife hasn't been on the official list.
Diane |
You know I sometimes really wonder about that. I don't like Dubya or Gore I despise Bill for the way he handled Rwanda but Hillary really scares me. I've gotten the distinct impression that she is quite a good deal smarter than her husband. I also think she is possibly the most vicious and calculating politician to come down the pipe in a very long time. I can't even fully explain it but I've always felt that she is going to cause more problems than any of the yahoos we've had for president in my lifetime. The fact that her supporters are so zealous in many ways is one of the big reasons why I find her so unsettling. As far as her and Bill though the common thought among most of my friends is that they have so much dirt on each other that they can't get divorced but that's purely speculation. It is also kind of interesting that in many ways she was one of the most powerful woman on the planet yet she managed to pull off looking like a victim without losing any of her power. She certainly is sharp. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:12 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
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| erifah wrote: | | bongborg wrote: |
...Hey, I hear they have black people in Brazil. Forget I said that.
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That may be difficult to do, if you meant by saying it, what I think you meant by it. If so, you just crossed a BIG line.
Perhaphs you should clarify your remarks so there will be no misunderstandings.... |
When Bush met with South American leaders( all white I assume) he asked one of them, " Do you have blacks in your country, too?". It was reported in the news. I imagine he probably lowered his voice when he asked. Interestingly, you always seem to think I have crossed your big lines when you don't think about what I am saying before you reply. Your hero has feet of clay and his hands are dirty, too... plus someone should wash out his mouth with soap.
The President is Hollow... |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:21 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
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| bongborg wrote: | | erifah wrote: | | bongborg wrote: |
...Hey, I hear they have black people in Brazil. Forget I said that.
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That may be difficult to do, if you meant by saying it, what I think you meant by it. If so, you just crossed a BIG line.
Perhaphs you should clarify your remarks so there will be no misunderstandings.... |
When Bush met with South American leaders( all white I assume) he asked one of them, " Do you have blacks in your country, too?". It was reported in the news. I imagine he probably lowered his voice when he asked. Interestingly, you always seem to think I have crossed your big lines when you don't think about what I am saying before you reply. Your hero has feet of clay and his hands are dirty, too... plus someone should wash out his mouth with soap. |
That quote - which I'm assuming you can verify somehow - is pretty obscure, so how much more could I have thought about what you said? As it was, I did ask you to clarify, so as to avoid any misunderstandings .
It is unfortunate that you seem to be choosing to get unpleasant with me, but I can deal with that, too... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:28 PM
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| Eric, I don't wish to be unpleasant to you... just pointing out to you that imitating Bush isn't going to make anyone think you are a genius and may in fact piss off whole groups of people, not to mention whole nations... |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:34 PM
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| bongborg wrote: | | Eric, I don't wish to be unpleasant to you... just pointing out to you that imitating Bush isn't going to make anyone think you are a genius and may in fact piss off whole groups of people, not to mention whole nations... |
Imitating Bush's quotes are harmless good fun. And it's all part of my grand strategery. Besides, I don't derive my self-esteem from passing myself off as a genius. I know that I am not, but I do know that I am a good, decent person. Maybe that's why Mr. Bush resonates with so many people, because that's what he is too.
If anyone wants to get pissed off over that, they can just be pissed off. |
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:52 PM
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For someone as bright as you say Bill is, he sure did a lot for this nation. I know that large tax cut he signed into law, and the War on Terr...uhm...wait...that's Bush. Yes. Bush has done more in his two years than I think Clinton did in eight.
Clinton can go 'do' whoever he wants, and that's his business, but when he stands in front of America and says, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky." Well, he's lost my respect, he's lost my enthusiasm, and he's lost his credibility. For someone as 'smart' as you say he is, well, he sure was really dumb when he thought he could lie to his countrymen and get away with it.
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:55 PM
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It's strange how people look at Bush and think he's so stupid. Well, if I remember right, he graduated from Harvard Business School, a very hard school to get into, and, one that Al Gore dropped out of. I'd rather have a plain-spoken, average guy in the White House who can simplify the world's problems, then a thinker who has to make everything so damned difficult, then spill it out in the public to make it seem even more so.
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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tj03a |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:56 PM
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| I thought that there really aren't as many blacks in South America. Even though the Portuguese imported 8 times as many slaves to Brazil as was shipped to the U.S. I read somewhere that it was cheaper for the South American countries to work their slaves to death and just buy new ones. I'm not sure if it was Brazil or some other country in South America. |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2002 - 10:57 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
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| rag451 wrote: | It's strange how people look at Bush and think he's so stupid. Well, if I remember right, he graduated from Harvard Business School, a very hard school to get into, and, one that Al Gore dropped out of. I'd rather have a plain-spoken, average guy in the White House who can simplify the world's problems, then a thinker who has to make everything so damned difficult, then spill it out in the public to make it seem even more so.
Robert |
*Applause* |
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