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rag451 |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 03:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 352
Location: Texas
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"There's one born every minute," they say! It seems as time progresses they're born every other second, as I seem to be seeing more and more of them these days.
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 03:49 AM
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Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan. 
| *diane* wrote: | | erifah wrote: | | *diane* wrote: | I hold out hope that bongborg's fears are unfounded, and that Bush et al. will not have the time or the public blind eye to accomplish what they might like to accomplish. However, I have never felt so close to the possibility that those things might happen as I have over the past two years.
Diane |
Honestly, what are you so afraid of? |
These are a few of the things that make me most fearful:
the erosion of civil rights in the name of "Homeland Security". The roundups that occurred after 9/11, with people being detained indefinitely and in secret, is frightening.
The possibility that if I need to terminate a pregnancy, I am going to have to seek out some hack who is trying to make money to support the drug habit he acquired in med school.
The collusion between the the president, vice president, his corrupt oil buddies, and other corrupt big business types.
The further destruction of the environment at the hands of the short-sighted and self-serving same.
The casual use of smart weapons like the one that just took out the supposed car full of al Qaeda. Have we heard any more about the actual identity of the man we killed that way last year because he was a tall guy on a horse in Afghanistan, and we thought he might have been bin Laden? (other than the fact that he wasn't bin Laden).
The emotionally driven, childish need to have a war with anyone, without thought to the long term consequences in the region. How's our humanitarian program going in Afghanistan? Why don't we focus our resources on being the good guy, instead of running to look for more battles to fight, and then leaving when the excitement is over?
I'm sure that's enough for you to tear into, so I'll leave it at that. Bush and the majority of the Republican leadership make me ill.
Diane |
The Civil Rights issue, in relation to the massive 'round-up' has worried me in so far as -- Have we released those that are not proven terrorists or terriorist-sympathizers? and What is the official count, right now, of how many people are in custody?
Yes, I think that it is wrong to go and round people up without proof, but I'm willing to place my trust in the government that those people whom they did detain (many of them were not arrested -- another thing that troubles me) were detained because there was sufficient reason to place them into custody. If there wasn't, then I'd hope that, by now, they would have released them. I found this out on the Department of Justice website. It's not all that long, so give it a shot; just be sure that you have the ability to view .pdf files though.
Your second point, about the termination of a pregnancy, does give me pause. Visit here to learn more about the Bush Healh Care Initiative.
The third one, about collusion between the Executive Branch and his so-called 'oil buddies' and 'other corrupt big business types' is just plain laughable. Please, go here and read through the first page, then click on 'More' and read the President's Ten-Point Plan.
Visit here to find out more about President Bush's Environmental Policies. I think there is a lot more we can do, and I think there is a lot more the President can do, but you have to admit that he has a full plate at the moment.
As for the use of 'Smart Weapons', well, I think that it's alright to use them, so long as we know that we can't easily go in and capture these people, and so long as we know that civilian deaths will be minimal to none. As I understand it, this caravan of vehicles was riding in the desert at the time, so no civilian lives were lost. If you want to read more, here is the transcript of the Defense Department Briefing for November 4th, 2002.
Go here and click on each item in the Table of Contents and carefully read it. There is a lot of very interesting material here, most of which I'd assume you'd never heard before.
The thought that it is an 'emotionally driven, childish need to have a war with anyone, without thought to the long term consequences in the region' is childish in itself. Please, go and read this and tell me that our current situation in Iraq has anything to do with 'childish'.
[I've just spent the better part of an hour sifting through the White House, Department of Defense, and Department of Justice websites. Oy.]
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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WillyStoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 03:51 AM
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Posts: 211
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| erifah wrote: | | WillyStoner wrote: | who does Iraq seel its oil to on the blackmarket?
ws |
That question has an easy answer.
Right from the start of the sanctions, the U.N. Security Council ignored Iraq's illegal oil sales to Jordan. Additionally, oil has been trucked to Turkey, and sent by oil tankers to Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
But right now the biggest problem is Syria. Iraq currently pumps between 180,000 to 200,000 barrels of oil per day through the Iraqi-Syrian pipeline, with trucks carrying an additional 30,000 to 40,000 bpd across their border.
With the money he's making off of these illegal sales, Saddam has been able to provide perks to his loyalists, provide goodies to his armed forces, sustain his lavish lifestyle, and procure illegal items for his weapons of mass destruction programs. |
thanks erifah, why then haven't we, and aren't firing on those
tankers and that pipe line?seems like somethimg we've had the
ability do deal with for some time now. If we can hit a car in the
desert desert in Yemen with a bomb fired from a drone plane,
why is that pipe line flowing?
ws |
_________________
I also post at Cynosure![/quote]
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:08 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 2110
Location: The Great State of Arizona
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| WillyStoner wrote: |
thanks erifah, why then haven't we, and aren't firing on those tankers and that pipe line?seems like somethimg we've had the
ability do deal with for some time now. If we can hit a car in the
desert desert in Yemen with a bomb fired from a drone plane,
why is that pipe line flowing?
ws |
I would reframe the question as, "why aren't we doing anything about the smuggling." And frankly, too many nations have an economic interest in things remaining just as they are. Iraq's neigbors find the smuggling too profitable and vital to their economies. And, Iraq would surely retaliate against any neighbors that did dare to cut off smuggling.
Add to that that the Russians, the French, and the Chinese will never go along with strengthening the enforcement of the sanctions, because they want the sanctions lifted.
If we go it alone and make military strikes only on the tankers and that pipe line, we would get bogged down in a tit-for-tat war with no end in sight. Better by far to get to the root of the problem once and for all: Saddam Hussein. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:23 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
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Posts: 3515
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| rag451 wrote: | Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan.
Robert |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist... perhaps there's a position for you in the new Department of Homeland Security... maybe they will have a Ministry of Truth and you can be one of the official history rewriters...
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:27 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 19345
Location: Somewhere right of center.
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| bongborg wrote: | | rag451 wrote: | Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan.
Robert |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist... perhaps there's a position for you in the new Department of Homeland Security... maybe they will have a Ministry of Truth and you can be one of the official history rewriters...
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
Careful, Bong. I get sanctioned for those kinds of personal attacks.
~Dave |
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 352
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
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| bongborg wrote: | | rag451 wrote: | Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan.
Robert |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist... perhaps there's a position for you in the new Department of Homeland Security... maybe they will have a Ministry of Truth and you can be one of the official history rewriters...
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
So far, I have as yet to see you, or one of your like-minded friends, post any links to any evidence supporting your claims continual rants. Thus far, the only propaganda I see is coming from you, as you talk and talk, yet offer up no evidence. Show me the evidence, and you might show me that you are interested in the truth. Otherwise, I'm not interested in what you have to say.
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:34 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 3515
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| Dave wrote: | | bongborg wrote: | | rag451 wrote: | Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan.
Robert |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist... perhaps there's a position for you in the new Department of Homeland Security... maybe they will have a Ministry of Truth and you can be one of the official history rewriters...
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
Careful, Bong. I get sanctioned for those kinds of personal attacks.
~Dave |
That's not a personal attack, it's a compliment for his persistent stance, and some sarcasm about Washington. If I wanted to make a personal attack, to use erifah's example, I'd call him stupid. I don't think rag is stupid, I think he is wrong. |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:34 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 2110
Location: The Great State of Arizona
Status: Offline
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| bongborg wrote: |
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
Of course not, Bong old boy... there are still plenty of Democrats left in the House and Senate. |
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tj03a |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:37 AM
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Posts: 1264
Location: New York, Long Island
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| rag451 wrote: |
So far, I have as yet to see you, or one of your like-minded friends, post any links to any evidence supporting your claims continual rants. Thus far, the only propaganda I see is coming from you, as you talk and talk, yet offer up no evidence. Show me the evidence, and you might show me that you are interested in the truth. Otherwise, I'm not interested in what you have to say.
Robert |
You mean to tell me all your research isn't republican propaganda and easily dismissed as such? Next thing you'll tell me that Bill Clinton isn't the 'greatest president we ever had'
Sorry I couldn't resist that one since someone once told me that I've been itching to toss it up again. 
Anyone here ever read Neal Boortz's book 'The Terrible Truth about Liberals' 
I think tomorrows purchase will be 'Why the Left Hates America' sounds like an interesting read don't you think? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:37 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 19345
Location: Somewhere right of center.
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| bongborg wrote: | | Dave wrote: | | bongborg wrote: | | rag451 wrote: | Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan.
Robert |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist... perhaps there's a position for you in the new Department of Homeland Security... maybe they will have a Ministry of Truth and you can be one of the official history rewriters...
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
Careful, Bong. I get sanctioned for those kinds of personal attacks.
~Dave |
That's not a personal attack, it's a compliment for his persistent stance, and some sarcasm about Washington. If I wanted to make a personal attack, to use erifah's example, I'd call him stupid. I don't think rag is stupid, I think he is wrong. |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist...
Look up the words. It is an attack.
~Dave |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:42 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 3515
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| rag451 wrote: |
So far, I have as yet to see you, or one of your like-minded friends, post any links to any evidence supporting your claims continual rants. Thus far, the only propaganda I see is coming from you, as you talk and talk, yet offer up no evidence. Show me the evidence, and you might show me that you are interested in the truth. Otherwise, I'm not interested in what you have to say.
Robert |
Just a day or so ago I posted several links to historical testimony of war crimes by Lincoln and the Republican Party, I have posted other links showing evidence of crimes by Bush family members and some of your other heros. You haven't seen them because you ignored it and did not read them. I am NOT interested in the official lies you consider truth. And feel free, if you are really uninterested in what I say, to refrain from your habit of commenting disparagingly upon it. |
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:43 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 352
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
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| tj03a wrote: | | rag451 wrote: |
So far, I have as yet to see you, or one of your like-minded friends, post any links to any evidence supporting your claims continual rants. Thus far, the only propaganda I see is coming from you, as you talk and talk, yet offer up no evidence. Show me the evidence, and you might show me that you are interested in the truth. Otherwise, I'm not interested in what you have to say.
Robert |
You mean to tell me all your research isn't republican propaganda and easily dismissed as such? Next thing you'll tell me that Bill Clinton isn't the 'greatest president we ever had'
Sorry I couldn't resist that one since someone once told me that I've been itching to toss it up again.
Anyone here ever read Neal Boortz's book 'The Terrible Truth about Liberals'
I think tomorrows purchase will be 'Why the Left Hates America' sounds like an interesting read don't you think? |
How dare you insinuate that Slick Willy aint the best gosh darned Prez we aint never ever had!! 
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:43 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 2110
Location: The Great State of Arizona
Status: Offline
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| tj03a wrote: |
Anyone here ever read Neal Boortz's book 'The Terrible Truth about Liberals'
I think tomorrows purchase will be 'Why the Left Hates America' sounds like an interesting read don't you think? |
Tonight at Border's Books, I bought When Character Was King: A Story of Ronald Reagan by Peggy Noonan. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:45 AM
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| Dave wrote: |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist...
Look up the words. It is an attack.
~Dave |
Alliteration negates attack.
Diane |
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erifah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:46 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 2110
Location: The Great State of Arizona
Status: Offline
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| bongborg wrote: |
Just a day or so ago I posted several links to historical testimony of war crimes by Lincoln and the Republican Party, I have posted other links showing evidence of crimes by Bush family members and some of your other heros.
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You call that evidence? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:46 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 19345
Location: Somewhere right of center.
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| *diane* wrote: | | Dave wrote: |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist...
Look up the words. It is an attack.
~Dave |
Alliteration negates attack.
Diane |
Not where I come from.
~Dave |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:50 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 3515
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| Dave wrote: | | bongborg wrote: | | Dave wrote: | | bongborg wrote: | | rag451 wrote: | Since some people seem to have such short memories, and because I'm so selfish in wanting people to actually look at things I take the time to work on, here is yet another example of Republican Ingenuity in having found some more links for you people to look at. Please make sure to thank me and drop off Dr. Pepper, or you will have one itchy trigger-happy Texan.
Robert |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist... perhaps there's a position for you in the new Department of Homeland Security... maybe they will have a Ministry of Truth and you can be one of the official history rewriters...
Officially, all the lying in Washington will stop now that the Republicans are in total control, right? |
Careful, Bong. I get sanctioned for those kinds of personal attacks.
~Dave |
That's not a personal attack, it's a compliment for his persistent stance, and some sarcasm about Washington. If I wanted to make a personal attack, to use erifah's example, I'd call him stupid. I don't think rag is stupid, I think he is wrong. |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist...
Look up the words. It is an attack.
~Dave |
By God, Dave, you are right, pusillanimous is not a word I should have used without checking the definition. Rag, I am sorry. You are in no way pusillanimous. You certainly are persistent, though, and that in my book is a virtue. Propagandist, while it has an undeserved negative connotative index, is actually a neutral term and means one who propagates information, whether that information is true or not. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:51 AM
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Posts: 19345
Location: Somewhere right of center.
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Ain't love grand?
~Dave  |
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:52 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 352
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
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| bongborg wrote: | | rag451 wrote: |
So far, I have as yet to see you, or one of your like-minded friends, post any links to any evidence supporting your claims continual rants. Thus far, the only propaganda I see is coming from you, as you talk and talk, yet offer up no evidence. Show me the evidence, and you might show me that you are interested in the truth. Otherwise, I'm not interested in what you have to say.
Robert |
Just a day or so ago I posted several links to historical testimony of war crimes by Lincoln and the Republican Party, I have posted other links showing evidence of crimes by Bush family members and some of your other heros. You haven't seen them because you ignored it and did not read them. I am NOT interested in the official lies you consider truth. And feel free, if you are really uninterested in what I say, to refrain from your habit of commenting disparagingly upon it. |
No, actually, I read all of them. Remember, I responded to your thread, asking for 'actual' evidence?
If you can't offer anything other than big words with no brains behind them, then I'd nicely invite you to refrain from posting on this thread, because I am interested in the truth, and on informing those interested, the real merits of the President's Administration. No one forces you to come here and read what I write. If you don't like it, then I won't tell you "tough", because it's not. Just go down to the thread about 10 Annoying Things and talk there.
When and if you want to apologize, or if you'd like to argue more, PM me. It has no place on this board, and we are both beginning to cross a fragile little line.
I'm tired of arguing with you. It's futile, and it's starting to grow childish. I grew out of childhood many years ago, and I don't wish to revisit it.
*sigh* I'm getting too old for this, and it's past my bedtime. I think I'm going to Denny's for Breakfast... If only I could find my AARP card.
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:53 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 3515
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| Dave wrote: | | *diane* wrote: | | Dave wrote: |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist...
Look up the words. It is an attack.
~Dave |
Alliteration negates attack.
Diane |
Not where I come from.
~Dave |
Where DO you come from, Dave? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:53 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 19345
Location: Somewhere right of center.
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| bongborg wrote: | | Dave wrote: | | *diane* wrote: | | Dave wrote: |
You are a persistent and pusillanimous propagandist...
Look up the words. It is an attack.
~Dave |
Alliteration negates attack.
Diane |
Not where I come from.
~Dave |
Where DO you come from, Dave? |
Sorry. That's classified.
~Dave |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:54 AM
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Perhaps "pugilistic" was the word you were looking for. Or "pugnacious."
Diane |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:55 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 19345
Location: Somewhere right of center.
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| *diane* wrote: | Perhaps "pugilistic" was the word you were looking for. Or "pugnacious."
Diane |
Works for me.
~Dave |
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rag451 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2002 - 04:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 352
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
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| Dave wrote: | | *diane* wrote: | Perhaps "pugilistic" was the word you were looking for. Or "pugnacious."
Diane |
Works for me.
~Dave |
There are a few words I'd like to use that Paul might not appreciate.
Robert |
_________________
"Maybe we weren't meant for Paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through, struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute, we must march to the sound of drums."
-- Kirk to McCoy
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