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Post subject:
 Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 06:24 AM
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| ASB wrote: | The Medicare levy is 1.2% of your wages and high income earners who choose not to have their own insurance pay an extra 1% so the most you can pay is 2.2% of your wages on medical.
This covers everything except dental and ambulance cover which costs us about $150 per year for the family, the ambulance cover includes helicopter and air transport even from the snowfields.
Cat I would love to know what area in Australia you lived, I suspect Sydney because the Hospital system there is terrible, we are very fortunate here to have a top hospital and very good acces to doctors, much better than most country towns. We have a very good standard of living here, the envy of many. No one starves. |
Well, if you are saying that some areas of Australia have a high standard of living, and others don't, then I agree with you, and the same goes here.
I'm not trying to put down Aus, there is good and bad as there is here. But I don't like my home being put down either. It's a two way street. I've lived in several places in both countries, and there is always good and bad.
Our home was in Berowra, but the medical experiences I mentioned happened in several different areas. |
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 07:40 AM
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| Stephanie wrote: | | rdb wrote: |
That too has been my experience. They don't care, except that you pay their bills. All driven by the profit motive.
I'm fighting to get that changed. We need a system that takes care of EVERYONE, irregardless of their financial situation. |
Yes, but I don't happen to think that fully socialized medicine is the right way.
Socalized medicine doesn't work "right" in countries where it exists now. What will make that different here in the USA? |
You do realise that Cuba has the same life expectancy as the USA and that our infant mortality rate is lower than yours, as is that of many other countries, mostly with "socialised" or "fair" as we like to call it, medicine? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 08:29 AM
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| greenchick wrote: | | Stephanie wrote: | | rdb wrote: |
That too has been my experience. They don't care, except that you pay their bills. All driven by the profit motive.
I'm fighting to get that changed. We need a system that takes care of EVERYONE, irregardless of their financial situation. |
Yes, but I don't happen to think that fully socialized medicine is the right way.
Socalized medicine doesn't work "right" in countries where it exists now. What will make that different here in the USA? |
You do realise that Cuba has the same life expectancy as the USA and that our infant mortality rate is lower than yours, as is that of many other countries, mostly with "socialised" or "fair" as we like to call it, medicine? |
Sue, I've got a friend in the UK, who has both arthritis and ITP. She has been on Enbrel for the arthritis, and it helps, but it has as a side effect a worsening of the ITP. This could be fatal. She would like to use Rituxan, but the health care system won't allow it, since Enbrel is "working", and much, much cheaper. I absolutely guarantee that here, she would be receiving Rituxan, and it would be paid for. So, how is your system better? It's not fair if you can be denied the appropriate meds by the government because of cost only. |
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 05:04 PM
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I'm not saying our system is perfect and there is, unfortunately, some rationing which is deplorable when we seem to be able to find the money for military adventures overseas. I can't comment on your friend's case but I do know that bottom line, if you lose your job, you don't have to worry about getting treatment for an injury or a sickness. I know there are some aspects of US healthcare that are some of the best (I think France has the internationally recognised best overall system) but I would hate to live in a country where I knew my fellow citizens lived in fear of getting ill because they couldn't afford it which seems to be the case with some people on this board.
My father has had an aneurysm removed and a quadruple heart bypass on the NHS and he's on a pension. |
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Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 05:10 PM
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Posts: 8322
Location: Chillville, PA
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| greenchick wrote: | | my fellow citizens lived in fear |
Everybody lives in fear. An overwhelming fear that controls us to the point where we can no longer get out of bed in the morning. Such a great amount of fear that with every breath we take, we just know we've ingested a lethal germ. Our govt. needs to take care of us. I can't do it myself. There's a lot of blame to go around, so let's start finger-pointing ASAP!
Every time I don't feel safe, someone else should have to pay a price. I wish I could get to the point where I could convince people I'm afaid and not safe and they would have to pay me trillions of dollars. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 05:17 PM
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Location: Lakeland Florida
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Greenchick, you've hit the nail on the head for a great many Americans.
Their SURVIVAL depends on not getting sick. Others are reduced to poverty and even begging because they got ill, while their better-off neighbors sneer at them because they don't have insurance and can't afford it.
A good book is "Nickled and Dimed: On NOT Getting by in America"
The system here is cruel and heartless towards those who have a hard time, while supportive of those who have money.
(There is something seriously wrong with a system where most of the citizens are only two or three paychecks away from being homeless at all times.) |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 05:25 PM
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| There should be some compensation to those who never use the system. There's no govt. reward for healthy living. There's no fed govt. reward for being green either. If you're gonna penalize people for being fat, or having a carbon footprint, it makes sense to reward those who follow orders, like The Third Reich. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 05:39 PM
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JT- is obesity a SYMPTOM or a CAUSE???
If you say cause- you're blaming the victim.
If you say SYMPTOM, you've at least read some of the research.
Medically caused obesity is far more prevalent than the average citizen would think. Based upon my own observations, most morbidly obese people eat far less than skinny people- and are as active as they can stand to be. Fat is not synonymous with lazy or gluttonous. It IS synonymous with bad health- and I would argue that bad health STARTED the obesity.
Indeed, I'm starting to be of the opinion that overeating only causes one to be a little overweight- and people who are really obese have some underlying medical condition that hasn't been diagnosed, much less treated.
Let's put it this way- when I was finally diagnosed with FMS, the doctor told me that if the medicines worked, I would loose weight.
I went from a TIGHT size 56 pants to size 44, and lost over a hundred pounds. The medicines, by the way- only help a little. I'd bet if they'd come up with something that took care of 100% of the symptoms I have, and that cured the source of the problem- my weight would drop to what would be considered normal. (I'd also love to experience some pain-free days- and the idea of a *mostly* pain-free life would be like heaven to me!!!)
People sometimes still try to tell me "If you'd loose the weight, you'd feel better!" - which gets them a lecture about medically caused obesity if I'm in a good mood- and foul language and being told they are blindly prejudiced and IGNORANT if I'm not.
I will also add that poor diet (a low-cost diet) is also associated with obesity. In this case- if you jump on the person for being fat, you're also punishing them for being poor. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 06:01 PM
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| Have to disagree with you there, Bob! I think there are definitely some conditions that cause weight gain and for some people food is an addiction like any other, but most people who are significantly overweight eat too much of the wrong things and don't do enough exercise. Some people have slower metabolisms, but if you take in less than you expend, you will lose weight... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 06:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14129
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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| greenchick wrote: | | Have to disagree with you there, Bob! I think there are definitely some conditions that cause weight gain and for some people food is an addiction like any other, but most people who are significantly overweight eat too much of the wrong things and don't do enough exercise. Some people have slower metabolisms, but if you take in less than you expend, you will lose weight... |
I only have half of a thyroid, so it is very hard for me to loose weight. I have been loosing, but very, very slowly. The kind of diet that would help me best is somewhat expensive, so I have had to compromise. Also, stress can interfere with digestion, causing the body not to absorb the nutrients properly. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 06:18 PM
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Location: Chillville, PA
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| greenchick wrote: | | Have to disagree with you there, Bob! I think there are definitely some conditions that cause weight gain and for some people food is an addiction like any other, but most people who are significantly overweight eat too much of the wrong things and don't do enough exercise. Some people have slower metabolisms, but if you take in less than you expend, you will lose weight... |
Everything is an addiction. Breathing is an addiction and people should receive free medical care for it. Drinking water is an addiction and the govt. should give us money to go to the doctor. The more people we can have to become dependant on the govt., the better. The world needs more pills.
I have an addiction to sleep. Every night about 11:00, I get tired and fall into a coma for about 7 hours. Sometimes 8 or 9 hours. I worry that some day, I won't wake up and I need treatment for it. The govt. needs to give me money. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 06:51 PM
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Location: CA
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HMMMM...I know this...I have tipped the scales at 100 lbs or less most of my life, at 5'5"...that was always a little light. When the IBS and CFIDS starting getting really bad...I experienced malabsorption and still contend with it.
This leads to thyroid problems and the inability to lose whatever toxic fat deposits accrue. In the last 3 years, post stroke, I have gained a third of my body weight and I hardly eat the equivalent of ONE American standard daily meal. I look at myself and see the fat that has come from being unable to DO all the activity I once took for granted or eat the foods I once enjoyed. Fat and toxins (cellulite) do have a Health basis...it isn't all from overeating or lack of exercise only..... some even come from the steroids the Drs. prescribe....I know, because I'm living it... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 07:27 PM
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| SMB wrote: | | greenchick wrote: | | Have to disagree with you there, Bob! I think there are definitely some conditions that cause weight gain and for some people food is an addiction like any other, but most people who are significantly overweight eat too much of the wrong things and don't do enough exercise. Some people have slower metabolisms, but if you take in less than you expend, you will lose weight... |
I only have half of a thyroid, so it is very hard for me to loose weight. I have been loosing, but very, very slowly. The kind of diet that would help me best is somewhat expensive, so I have had to compromise. Also, stress can interfere with digestion, causing the body not to absorb the nutrients properly. |
That's why I said that some people have medical conditions that prevent them from maintaining a healthy weight. Others are just plain greedy! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 07:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2002
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Location: Upstate New York
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I would like to thank all of you for your candid comments...
In this thread I have actually learned things about not only the States but Canada our Neighbor up North, the UK and the Land Down Under..... I have learned about the Poor, The Newly Poor and those who fear that they will be Poor in the near Future...
Healthcare, Income, loss of Income.... worry for Ourselves and/or our Loved Ones... Those who just squeek by and those who revert to dining on Pet Food....
Again....Thank You All...
Dan |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 07:46 PM
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Posts: 8322
Location: Chillville, PA
Status: Offline
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| rdb wrote: | JT- is obesity a SYMPTOM or a CAUSE???
If you say cause- you're blaming the victim.
If you say SYMPTOM, you've at least read some of the research.
Medically caused obesity is far more prevalent than the average citizen would think. Based upon my own observations, most morbidly obese people eat far less than skinny people- and are as active as they can stand to be. Fat is not synonymous with lazy or gluttonous. It IS synonymous with bad health- and I would argue that bad health STARTED the obesity.
Indeed, I'm starting to be of the opinion that overeating only causes one to be a little overweight- and people who are really obese have some underlying medical condition that hasn't been diagnosed, much less treated.
Let's put it this way- when I was finally diagnosed with FMS, the doctor told me that if the medicines worked, I would loose weight.
I went from a TIGHT size 56 pants to size 44, and lost over a hundred pounds. The medicines, by the way- only help a little. I'd bet if they'd come up with something that took care of 100% of the symptoms I have, and that cured the source of the problem- my weight would drop to what would be considered normal. (I'd also love to experience some pain-free days- and the idea of a *mostly* pain-free life would be like heaven to me!!!)
People sometimes still try to tell me "If you'd loose the weight, you'd feel better!" - which gets them a lecture about medically caused obesity if I'm in a good mood- and foul language and being told they are blindly prejudiced and IGNORANT if I'm not.
I will also add that poor diet (a low-cost diet) is also associated with obesity. In this case- if you jump on the person for being fat, you're also punishing them for being poor. |
I think obesity is a fact of life. We're all different and people who are overweight shouldn't be punished by a healthcare system that knocks them for being who they are.
Fat people can lead long, healthy lives. A skinny person can be very unhealthy. I see a healthcare system that's trying to push an agenda and penalize overweight people and at the same time, it fails to reward those who abide by their Third Reich mentality.
The more the govt. creeps into our lives, the more they screw things up for all of us. Less govt, less taxes will lead us to prosperity. More govt., more taxes lead us to debt and mis-management of funds. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 09:30 PM
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Location: Lakeland Florida
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JT, it's been shown that the government is usually not the source of "trouble"- and at the same time it can PREVENT troubles.
Problems like what we (Sue and I) face are caused by (1) the false stereotypes of fat=greedy and lazy (and FMS=lazy and malingering), when that's not the case and (2) conservatives want to cut out the leeches, so they make the rules harder- but the leeches find ways around the rules so people who really NEED help get cut out. The problem is, there are far far less leeches on the system than the (WRONG) public perception- and lots of deserving and hurting people are left in the cold. (Why do you think that suicide is epidemic among the poor and homeless these days? They can't find employment, and people constantly tell them "Get a Job!!!" That sort of abuse also extends to seeking medical care.)
I would say that the real leeches on the system aren't the lazy people sitting at home and drawing welfare, or the person with chronic medical problems who depends on the system. The real leeches are the crooked doctors and businessmen who deliberately scam the system- for loads of money (usually in the many millions of dollars). We just had another big scam system busted up here in Florida that had taken several million dollars from Medicare. That happens quite frequently, sad to say- and while they are eventually caught, everyone looks to the individual who needs help as the source of the problem- rather than the rich scam artists. That, by the way, is the main reason public housing hasn't worked all that well- rich scam artists who bilk the system.
You might be surprised how many of the "government programs" have been turned over to businesses to be run- and a lot of the money being turned over goes right into the pockets of the owners- the rich (and as we learn, many of those are scams).
It's also been proved that a government agency is often more cost efficient than a business, because the focus is on helping people and not making a profit. For one thing- more people are employed (at usually a better income) than working for one of those "farm-out" agencies. More money gets into the hands of the people who need it as well.
I might add that it took government action to give African-Americans their rights, and it took government action to protect those rights (and let me tell you- if the government doesn't keep the bigots under control, minorities WILL loose their rights!) It took Federal Government action before we gained the right to exist. It took Government action to force business owners into treating their employees like human beings. If your health goes to hell, you can't expect anyone EXCEPT the government to provide you any sort of long-term assistance. Forget the NGO's and other organizations.
So, to quote President Obama- government can be part of the solution- and based upon all the research and reports I've read- it HAS to be. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 09:40 PM
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Location: Lakeland Florida
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I might add- all of the bad treatment I've gotten (with two exceptions) from doctors has always been with the "for-profit" sector.
The two exceptions- (1) a "for profit" doctor who was a friend BEFORE I learned he was a doctor- and who saw first hand what I go through. He finally got tired of seeing me trying to cope and not always succeeding, so he asked me who my doctor was. I told him I didn't have a doctor because none of them listened to me. Within an hour of seeing him a few days later, he had a diagnosis of severe FMS. That, by the way, was confirmed by a neurologist. (2) a government doctor who told me quote "There's nothing wrong with you 'cept you're FAT!" She was incompetent- didn't know a thing about FMS. She was the only bad experience I had with someone in the government system.
I've always been treated very well by the (government) health system at school, except they're a bit of a pain to see (you have to sit and wait and wait to see a nurse- and then sit and wait and wait to see a doctor if the nurse thinks it requires a doctor's attention). They LISTEN. That isn't what I experienced in the "for profit" medical sector of the economy. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2009 - 02:21 AM
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I'm not going to encourage anyone to gain weight here, but I sometimes wonder if the whole weight issue isn't overplayed.
My dad is one of five boys. One of my uncles died of cancer in his 40's. Another two of my uncles are currently undergoing chemo, both are stage four cancer victims. Another uncle has successfully (hopefully) battled his cancer.
My dad is the only one who has not developed cancer, and he is the healthiest of them all (and not the youngest). He is overweight by quite a bit, and will probably live the longest.
So, do I eat to live, or live to eat? Or do I just stuff chocolate into my mouth until such time as it either kills me, or I discover it causes us to live forever? Now there's a scary thought ~ me being around for a long time yet........  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2009 - 02:41 AM
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Posts: 7743
Location: NSW -Australia
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| Cat wrote: | I'm not going to encourage anyone to gain weight here, but I sometimes wonder if the whole weight issue isn't overplayed.
My dad is one of five boys. One of my uncles died of cancer in his 40's. Another two of my uncles are currently undergoing chemo, both are stage four cancer victims. Another uncle has successfully (hopefully) battled his cancer.
My dad is the only one who has not developed cancer, and he is the healthiest of them all (and not the youngest). He is overweight by quite a bit, and will probably live the longest.
So, do I eat to live, or live to eat? Or do I just stuff chocolate into my mouth until such time as it either kills me, or I discover it causes us to live forever? Now there's a scary thought ~ me being around for a long time yet........ |
Saw a 117 year Old man on the news and he loves Chocolate
Maybe this is the answer . Eat more chocolate 
daisy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2009 - 02:59 AM
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Location: Jaw Jah
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I'm doing OK in this economy 
I help keep a small business running. Times are slow but we pay the bills.
We pay the Government out of every orifice, but that's OK as
long as they don't come in and say, we'll tell you how to run this
business anymore than they do now.
The past tax-cuts have helped a lot. I hope they continue
/not holding my breath
//just hoping |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2009 - 08:26 PM
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Location: Upstate New York
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I'll drink to that!
Dan
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 01, 2009 - 01:47 AM
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Posts: 1853
Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA
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Our police dept and the city have a tenative contract agreement as of last night. I'm extremely anxious to see what they had to give up---it will directly impact my job. I may be looking at a 15% cut out of my paycheck!!! NOT GOOD!!!! My monthly budget is based on the wages I make now. I don't indulge in frivilous things nearly as much as I used to. I haven't bought new clothing in quite some time (I have to wear a uniform to work, and they provide the crappy thing). Once in a while I do splurge, but it's on useful things. Not anymore!!!
I just called my tv provider and got rid of a $10 package that I don't even watch. I printed out the package I have and another smaller one to compare channels. I may be going to the smaller one next month, depending on the cuts the police are going to be taking.
15% out of my check is roughly around $300 a month. That would be my motorcycle payment (bought only because I could afford it) and half of my car payment (which is a 2003). I'm scrambling trying to think of ways to cut corners even more. I already have the lowest priced phone and internet service (package deal). I did just find out my car and m.c. insurance is dropping about $50 a year each (every penny counts, so I'm not knocking it!!!). My natural gas price (furnace, hot water tank, etc) is going down starting July 1st, so that will help.
I know I will be alright, but I'm just a huge worry-wart when it comes to my finances. I've finally managed to get some $$$ in my savings account, and now I may have to be dipping into it to pay monthly bills.... That thought doesn't make me a happy camper!!!
Oh, well. We'll see. We have a union meeting on Thursday, so we may be getting some information then. Sigh..... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 01, 2009 - 09:47 PM
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Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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| rdb wrote: |
There is something seriously wrong with a system where most of the citizens are only two or three paychecks away from being homeless at all times. |
How true that is!
Sorry to anyone whose posts I may have missed in this thread - but it's getting out of hand and I'm pretty sure I missed a couple of pages.
The bottom line, I think, is that no one's system is perfect, and people fall through the cracks of each.
That, and that there is indeed something ver wrong when most of a country's citizens are 2 or 3 paychecks from being homeless and without basic medical care and don't have enough food & clothing to survive. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 02, 2009 - 04:50 AM
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Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA
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| Stephanie wrote: | | rdb wrote: |
There is something seriously wrong with a system where most of the citizens are only two or three paychecks away from being homeless at all times. |
How true that is!
Sorry to anyone whose posts I may have missed in this thread - but it's getting out of hand and I'm pretty sure I missed a couple of pages.
The bottom line, I think, is that no one's system is perfect, and people fall through the cracks of each.
That, and that there is indeed something ver wrong when most of a country's citizens are 2 or 3 paychecks from being homeless and without basic medical care and don't have enough food & clothing to survive. |
I agree whole-heartedly!!!!! |
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Post subject: star trek economy
Posted: Jul 02, 2009 - 10:45 PM
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Hello, I'm a new Member!
Joined: Jul 02, 2009
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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| They use credits o­n earth,and im not sure what that is.But as long as theirs plenty of resources,theres plenty for something beyond money. Having various worlds resources and not just earth,will make earth more prosperous. Credits are for trade like money but maybe more for peoples use and not as hard to earn or desperate as money was in ages past. Federation gives out the credits to everyone monthly,most likely. Housing is bountiful,with more worlds to live o­n. <br> |
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