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Post subject:
 Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 12:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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| Cat wrote: | Stephanie, I think what LS might have been referring to is contacting the actual pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the prescription meds that you and your hubby take. That might be harder, if the meds are generic, so they don't hold a patent.
I know that the makers of Rituxan, will help with costs for those that can't afford the med, or whose insurance won't pay. Maybe the makers of some of your meds might do the same, or possibly might know of some program that would help? Might be worth a shot, anyway.
I'm sorry you're in this situation. Been there myself, and it just sucks. |
I'm sorry. Maybe I wasn't clear in my reply to LS.
Because my sister IS a pharmacologist, and has other pharmacological contacts in other pharmaceutical companies besides the one she works for, I have tried that already.
First - since there is a generic for each of our particular meds, no one cares about helping someone like me out. Their attitude is that I can always go to the other comany to beg for my pills; they're not responsible to me for anything. I probably would be better off if there weren't generics for my meds... but then, I wouldn't be able to afford them at all.
Second - there are too many people who can't afford their meds, right now; they can't possibly help everyone, so they help no one. At least, that's what they're telling me.
The upshot is what you said, and I've already said: It sux. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 12:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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| Stephanie wrote: | | Cat wrote: | Stephanie, I think what LS might have been referring to is contacting the actual pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the prescription meds that you and your hubby take. That might be harder, if the meds are generic, so they don't hold a patent.
I know that the makers of Rituxan, will help with costs for those that can't afford the med, or whose insurance won't pay. Maybe the makers of some of your meds might do the same, or possibly might know of some program that would help? Might be worth a shot, anyway.
I'm sorry you're in this situation. Been there myself, and it just sucks. |
I'm sorry. Maybe I wasn't clear in my reply to LS.
Because my sister IS a pharmacologist, and has other pharmacological contacts in other pharmaceutical companies besides the one she works for, I have tried that already.
First - since there is a generic for each of our particular meds, no one cares about helping someone like me out. Their attitude is that I can always go to the other comany to beg for my pills; they're not responsible to me for anything. I probably would be better off if there weren't generics for my meds... but then, I wouldn't be able to afford them at all.
Second - there are too many people who can't afford their meds, right now; they can't possibly help everyone, so they help no one. At least, that's what they're telling me.
The upshot is what you said, and I've already said: It sux. |
Thanks for explaining that.
Damn, it just seems as though there has got to be a way around this. I suppose you have already tried all the patient prescription programs, etc? I have a friend who works with the department of Health and Human Servies in New Jersey, I'd be happy to ask her if she knows of any programs if you'd like. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 27, 2009 - 01:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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Damn...you're falling right between the cracks , as many of us have....
Well,, the route I had to go for a few elders this month...was to actually call their Drs. and ask for SAMPLE PACKS of the Meds they prescribed...I told them...Either you help me out with this or your patient is going to be unable to take what you have prescribed and they will be worse to handle. I am noting everything I am saying to you, and your response, in their file. Got 3 months of Meds for them.
Cat is right...sometimes, the Pharm. Cos. will give directly to someone when they have a Life Threatening Illness, which you qualify for....and the Dr. will be happy to rewrite the script for Brand name if you were to qualify.
Seems like you are trying everything you can....wait...are there any Native American Clinics near you? By Fed Law they have to lend assistance to EVERYONE.
That's all I can think of right now...we ALL may be in this boat without a paddle before we know it.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 12:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 1754
Location: Country NSW
Status: Offline
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| I can not believe how bad things can be in The US, this reads like your a third world country, why is it we in Australia get unemployment bennefits time unlimited, those on pensions or unemployment get free medical and medication for about $5. Our Universal medical leaves the US for dead, its unbelievable things are such as they are in a country that says its the greatest in the world, Maybe its time the US looked out for its own for a while, certainly sounds like many need help, I was staggered by the numbers of beggers in the US when I last visited, and so many looked like proud good people who had fallen on desperate times. I hope things improve real soon. |
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When Hell Freezes Over I'll Ski There Too
E=M'Ski Squared.
Ausi Ski Bum (ASB)
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 06:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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Believe me now?...I've tried to tell you we were a Third World Country...pretending to be Powerful. If we went through all the details of so many peoples lives ...you would just sit with your jaw hanging...truly.
It like I've been alluding to...the GHOST DANCE Time...the time when all the Land will become as the Reservations have been...and many will die...the only other part to that Legacy is that "The People" are supposed to then take over Stewardship....
I hate watching this happen and had hoped I would no longer be walking here when the time came.... now, I find I am brought to tears.... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 06:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1745
Location: Lakeland Florida
Status: Offline
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ASB- I think you can understand the frustration I feel then.
I tell people what's really going on, and they scream "Traitor!" and "America- love it or leave it!" at me. They insist that we have the best system in the world, yet in some cases the very screamers don't have any health insurance themselves or they are suffering financially when they shouldn't. They blame immigrants and others (minorities) for our problems- and don't realize that they're foolishly repeating propaganda put out by the very cause of their problems- the American Elites (the VERY rich and Big Business).
I quote or refer to research in peer-reviewed journal articles, and they either denounce the social sciences or claim that it's propaganda- while quoting groups dedicated to preserving the elites in power and who have been PROVED to disseminate false information.
I tell people that America is something like 30th in the world for standard of living, and in some cases "third world" nations do better- and they say I'm lying. They've been so programmed with a knee-jerk reaction against anything that the elites deem socialism (even if it's not) that the slightest mention of things like "living wage" or "universal health care" sets off a loud and sometimes violent rant.
I almost expect that you will be attacked for saying what you just said- and I will be attacked for being in agreement with it. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 06:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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| Don't know what's worse....going down in Flames, while having open-eyed knowledge of it...or going down in delusions of grandeur |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 06:58 PM
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Posts: 1745
Location: Lakeland Florida
Status: Offline
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 10:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 11565
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| Excuse my ignorance but are you really saying that if you lose your job through no fault of your own, you then lose entitlement to health care? Surely not! Also, don't you get unemployment benefits to obviate the need to eat dog food? Sounds like the Grapes of Wrath! |
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"It's never too late to be who we might have been" George Elliot
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 10:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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GC...Firstly, you have to consider if one HAD Health care at their Job in the first place, allot DON'T, but if so...one may get COBRA which extends those benefits for about 6 months...at a VERY HIGH RATE, which many cannot afford. After that runs out...you are SOL.
Unemployment does come in...at usually 1/2, or lower, of what you were making at your job. The rate is based on your wages backdated 1 year from your work release...then divided into quarters and used at higher rate base.
They are making it more difficult to extend those benefits....
If you are elderly , with no Insurance and dependent on MediCare...you're SOL too, as they have cut that coverage way back.
We have been telling you guys the truth....it isn't exaggerated in the least. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 11565
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| SOL? |
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"It's never too late to be who we might have been" George Elliot
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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| SHITE OUTTA LUCK |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 11565
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| I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! |
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"It's never too late to be who we might have been" George Elliot
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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| greenchick wrote: |
Excuse my ignorance but are you really saying that if you lose your job through no fault of your own, you then lose entitlement to health care? Surely not! Also, don't you get unemployment benefits to obviate the need to eat dog food? Sounds like the Grapes of Wrath! |
I have no idea where you live, but it can't be the USA, if you have to ask such questions.
First: You DO realize that many, many full-time jobs don't offer health insurance, right? Many working Americans have jobs, but don't have any health insurance, and don't have access to even basic medical care.
Second: If a worker loses his/her job through no fault of his/her own, and had health insurance as a benefit, they may not get continued helath insurance coverage via COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act). Many companies are not obligated to continue coverage via COBRA if they are smaller companies, for example. Other companies fit into niche loopholes which mandate that they must provide coverage, but not necessarily ther same coverage the worker had when an employee. Most Americans have no idea about these loopholes, until they're in need and can lawfully be denied. In cases when an employee is eligible for continued coverage via COBRA, the employee pays for the health insurance coverage, not the employer.
When/if COBRA is in effect, one is only eligible for coverage for 18 months. Whoever said less is now wrong, as the new Obama stimulus package changed it. Also, now, the federal government reimburses the employer who pays the health insurance company for the continued coverage of the unemployed person; the goverment pays 65% and we must pay 35% of the total cost. This lasts 9 months. It's part of the new stimulus package. If we wish, we can also continue to pay 100% of the cost of the health coverage, for the next 9 months. After that - we're on our own.
Third: Unemployment is not, as someone posted, a flat percentage rate of anyone's salary, at least not everywhere. That's never been true and still is isn't true. Unempoyment varies from state to state.
In New Jersey, it's calculated at a rate of not more than 50% of one's base salary at the time of severance - no matter what the reason for the severance. If you were severed for no fault of your own, you are eligible to collect immediately, but if you were at fault, you must wait 13 weeks before becoming eligible to collect. And in NJ, it's capped at $525/month - and that's taxable, so you pay Uncle Sam, at that rate, income taxes of about 23% fo that. So you don't even get to keep that meager $525/month in your pocket... Unemployment can, if you are doing everything the state Dept of Labor asks of ou, last for 79 weeks. Nothing will continue your benefits past that.
Now, take our personal example. Hubby was earning $85K annually in 2008. That was a severe cut - about 35% cut from his 2007 earnings, and almost 50% from his 2006 earnings... but that's due to the ecomomy.
In January of 2009, he was still earning at a rate of what would have been $85K abbually. In February, he was laid off.
In our particular case, he couldn't even get an interview with Unemployment for 11 weeks, coz they were so backlogged. Once he got his interview, he was deemed eligible for benefits right away. It took another 2 or 3 weeks before his check came... so even though he was back-paid, we'd already spent most of what we had in investments, just trying to stay alive.
How many of you have enough money saved, that you could live for 14 weeks with NO INCOME before getting any income again?!
We were lucky...
Hubby's been awarded the highest amount one can receive from Unemployment -- that's $525 per month, plus an additional $50 check, thanks to President Obama's stimulus package for NJ.
So we must live on $575/week, when we had been living on approx. $1600/bimonthy. That's NOT easy!! And we also must pay $832 monthly, out of that unemployment, too, for our health insurance coverage via COBRA.
We must pay nearly $100/month, too, property taxes on our home. Thankfully, we owned our home free and clear before hubby lost his job.
So, the lifestyle that we're living right now is in fact less than what we might live in a third-world country.
We can't afford food, given the high cost of living here in Essex county, NJ. We can't afford medications. We can't afford anything but our most basic utility bills, our property taxes, and some food - but not enough.
There are no jobs right now for either hubby or me. The economy has ruined the companies for which we worked or might have worked. Worse -- hubby is 63 years old, almost 64. How likely, do any of you think, it is that anyone will hire him, at his age?
Does this ^ put things into perspective for you lucky folks who don't live n the USA? |
Last edited by Stephanie on Jun 29, 2009 - 12:16 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 28, 2009 - 11:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
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It certainly does! thanks for that explanation, Stephanie.
I live in Britain where we pay higher taxes (I pay 20% of mine and Steve, my husband, pays 40%) but we have health care no matter what. Some, non-urgent procedures you may have to wait for but otherwise it's pretty effiecient, or has been in my experience. Surely though, if you break a leg or something, an ambulance would pick you up and treat you even if you didn't have insurance? sorry to seem dim, just can't get my head round it!
I'm not familiar with the unemployment benefit system, as I haven't had to use it, touch wood! I could look it up if you're interested.
BTW, I'm not very good at Maths, but isn't $575 a week more than $1600 a month?? |
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"It's never too late to be who we might have been" George Elliot
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 12:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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I wish I had 575 a week! Believe it or not, hubby and me could live very nicely on that.
Of course, we don't have children. Our monthly expenses are around 500.00 monthly, so heck, I could squirrel away 3 weeks worth of income and save for a new car, or even a new home.
And, yes, I realize that everyone's situation is different and what one person can live comfortably on, wouldn't be nearly enough for another. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 12:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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| greenchick wrote: |
sorry to seem dim, just can't get my head round it!
I'm not familiar with the unemployment benefit system, as I haven't had to use it, touch wood! I could look it up if you're interested.
BTW, I'm not very good at Maths, but isn't $575 a week more than $1600 a month?? |
It is... I'm the one not very good at my math. lol
I edited to reflect what I meant to say: $1600 bimonthly - twice per month... on the 15th and the last day of each month.
If I fell and broke a leg, an ambulance might come to pick me up... but if they wanted to be paid for the transport and I refused to sign for the payment - then they can leave me there, in some cases. Ditto the hospital.
Regional trauma center hospitals must treat anybody no matter what; other hospitals need not treat anybody who can't or won't pay. Some ambulances - depending upon how the company is set up - must transport, but others need not transport non-paying people.
There is no "Right" to health care in the United States of America.
We are a free country, all right - but nothing is free here. Don't mistake the meaning of the word "free".
We ARE free... as in we have our freedom. nothng else here is free... as in "no cost". We must pay - and pay a LOT - for food, medical care, legal assistance, clothing, housing -- all the "basics" of life. Get it, now?
The sarcasm isn't directed at you, it's just..... *sigh* Never mind. I'm sorry. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 01:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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| SMB wrote: |
I wish I had 575 a week! Believe it or not, hubby and me could live very nicely on that. |
You think so?
Where do you live, if I might ask?
What do you pay for ---
health insurance? $863/m
property taxes? (no mortgage - we own free & clear) Almost $1000/m - why do I live in Essex county, NJ?
a quart of milk? or a half-gallon? $2.69/q & $36.9/ half gallon
a loaf of bread? approx. $3.89/loaf
a pound of chicken leg quarters? approx. 89˘ on sale or $1.19 regularly
peaches, nectarines, fresh vegetables? fresh produuce runs beween $2.99 and $8.99 per pound for most non-fancy produce - nothing exotic
I pay the following basic utilities (note - no cable or naything fancy, and the DSL is becauses hubby can't remain up-to-date with hopes of ever working again, without it - as he writes custom software).
Verizon - aprox. $2.69/m
Earthlink - $80/m (contract - can't get out of it)
AT&T Wireless - $89.95/m (contract - can't get out of it)
PSE&G (electric & gas) - $approx. $300/m - but that's before the summer and need for Air/Con
GEICO/car insurance - $289/m (and that's dirt-cheap in NJ!)
gasoline to drive either car or the truck - approx. $2.45/gal (thank God I live in NJ - the "Land of No Self-Serve" and still the cheapest statewide prices nationwide!)
[/b] |
Last edited by Stephanie on Jun 29, 2009 - 01:06 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 01:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 01:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 77
Location: City on the Edge of Forever
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| SMB wrote: |
Of course, we don't have children. Our monthly expenses are around 500.00 monthly, so heck, I could squirrel away 3 weeks worth of income and save for a new car, or even a new home. |
Do you have a landline telephone?
Pay electric and/or gas bills?
Have or pay for health insurance coverage?
Have a car or cars? Pay insurance on them?
Own or rent?
Hubby is a senior, and I am handicapped with EDS: Our medical bills are significantly higher than those of healthy younger people.
I'm not attacking you. But if *I* can live on this income where YOU live - thenI'm moving there. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 01:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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Gee...I understand you aren't feeling very good about all of this, but you sure are quick to give "superior attitude" to someone else about what they relate of situations in their area....I don't mind constructive criticism, but you do get a bit touchy. Sorry for not keeping up to your standards of communication, but we don't work under the same system,as you are stating, in California.... I think Sue is used to the way I speak by now and she certainly knows I may only speak about the state I live in. She is of high intelligence and knows, by now, that each State varies in it's procedures and rules and I was simply giving her a rough idea of what happens here.
Nothing I said was untrue for my area. In California, it is calculated, as I said by the previous years earnings. The amount for benefits available is based on the claimant's earnings in the base period. To qualify for
benefits in California, a claimant must have (1) earned at least $1,300 in the highest quarter of the base period, or (2) have earned at least $900 in the highest quarter and earned total base period earnings of at least 1.25 times the high quarter earnings. For example, if the claimant has $900 earnings in the highest quarter, he/she is also required to have earned a total of $1,125 in the base period ($900 x 1.25 = $1,125).
The maximum amount of a regular UI claim is either 26 times the claimant's weekly benefit amount or one-half of the claimant's base period wages, whichever is LESS.
This requirement denies benefits to claimants whose earnings in a 12-month "base period" are below the minimum noted above on the assumption that low earnings indicate a short or temporary attachment
to the labor force. The "base period" is 12 months long, but it is important to think of it as 4 quarters of 3 months each. The quarter in which the highest wages were received determines the weekly benefit amount.
You can only collect if it is deemed to not be your fault that you were fired, there is a two week waiting period for submission and another two weeks for determination.
You are lucky that if it IS your fault that you got fired, that they get to become eligible after 13 weeks waiting. The amount in California is calculated on gross earnings and the maximum benefit is $450 week.Which is Taxable to Fed Income tax. The benefit is for up to six months UNLESS you are approved by the EDD for job training, then it can be extended to one year.
The stimulus funds to California will only be made available to those who qualify for retraining and Gov. Swartzie is trying to keep every cent he can from every program..at this point in time. Of course that didn't stop him from using quite a chunk of the Fed Stimulus Funds to buy computers, telephones and mobile filing/contact equipment for on site filing during Major Layoffs...in other words...he spent money on Office equip. and Staff.
AND...Federal legislation signed into law on February 17, 2009, allows for a weekly $25 stimulus payment. This $25 stimulus payment will be added to each week of UI benefits paid to eligible workers in California. The federal legislation states that these $25 stimulus payments are only payable for weeks of unemployment that start February 22, 2009, and after.
Effective immediately EDD will automatically add the $25 stimulus payment to each paid week of unemployment that starts on or after February 22, 2009, as part of the regular UI check.
Unemployed workers will continue to receive Unemployment Insurance (UI)benefits even though California’s UI Trust Fund has run out of money. The Federal Government provides loans to states so that UI benefits will not be interrupted.
On January 26, 2009, the California Employment Development Department (EDD) began borrowing from the federal government to pay UI benefits due to the insolvency of California's Unemployment Trust Fund.
Anyway, I would say that you are actually doing quite well, compared to allot of people I know, at an income of $3200 monthly. They can squeek by on that.... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 02:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 7746
Location: NSW -Australia
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Just as an example and I am sure you have no idea how we do it here in Australia , this is not a dig at any system, but to show you you are way behind with much needed help.
20 years Back I went on to a permanent invalid pension. that switched to a senior pension when I reached sixty five
From September I will receive
$1344 every 4 weeks as a single senior
A couple receives $2028
here is the budget for this year for pensions,
http://www.budget.gov.au/2009-10/conten ... iew_02.htm
This includes about $650 which is to help with Prescriptions utilities, and an allowance for Phone a year. I have to pay a nominal fee of $6.50 for any prescription ,And every man woman and child recieved a stimulus payment of $1000. I got $1400
There is also if I needed, it rates are cut in half for homes., and rent assistance for those renting homes
If I broke a hip I would be picked up by ambulance and taken to one of several hospitals, or if a road trauma for example I would be air lifted to the Bigger hospitals.
This would be free of charge as I am a senior, and I am on Medicare, but "anyone'' who needs help gets it, as GC said elective surgery you may have to wait but you are on a list. and this also if you are unable to insure yourself it is free.
How do we do it all. every wage earner has to pay a medibank levy. Not sure how much it is.
I might just add here if you were out of work, and there was none available, even with the help of our ''Centerlink social security'' ,you would have the same pension as above immediately (a lot more if you have kids) and NO limit. they would try to find jobs on their lists . but even young 16 year olds get help. they do have to wait several weeks though.
we do get a lot of American news and we see rallies for a fair go. and I have to say I am shocked at the money spent on wars and aid abroad. and people there need so much help.
I do understand it all, as my Daughter has been under the poverty line in the US for several years now. with little hope of it getting any better in the short term..
Daisy  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 02:41 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1745
Location: Lakeland Florida
Status: Offline
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| Stephanie wrote: | | SMB wrote: |
Of course, we don't have children. Our monthly expenses are around 500.00 monthly, so heck, I could squirrel away 3 weeks worth of income and save for a new car, or even a new home. |
Do you have a landline telephone?
Pay electric and/or gas bills?
Have or pay for health insurance coverage?
Have a car or cars? Pay insurance on them?
Own or rent?
Hubby is a senior, and I am handicapped with EDS: Our medical bills are significantly higher than those of healthy younger people.
I'm not attacking you. But if *I* can live on this income where YOU live - thenI'm moving there. |
Sue is sleeping right now- but when she wakes up she will break things down. |
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rdb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 03:07 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1745
Location: Lakeland Florida
Status: Offline
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Daisy, what you describe sounds heavenly. It's so much much nicer than anything I've experienced. Everything here is based upon your ability to pay.
One year, things were tough (recession) and I had to go to the emergency room with a bad kidney stone. After waiting over six hours for a doctor, one came into the room where I was- but he wasn't there about my kidney stone- his first question was about my insurance (none) and the second was how I was going to pay (I told him I had no income and didn't know). He got mad and PUNCHED ME IN THE AFFECTED KIDNEY. I almost fell off the table from the pain. It was his word against mine, so it went nowhere.
They sent me home and I passed it on my own a couple of days later.
As I remember, I got a SMALL prescription for Tylenol 3. It didn't do a thing for the pain and ran out before the stone passed. (I've had so many that I tend to ignore them UNLESS the pain stops me from "functioning".)
They're even worse about not listening to you if you're not rich. I won't go there now- but I will say that they didn't listen to me for over 20 years.
Last Thursday, I was asked to take part in a round table discussion about the medical care system and why it needs to be changed. The discussion was covered by a local radio station (which left a lot out). They did cover part of what I said (and every word is true!!!)
Here is a link to the news report including my part:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/wmnfeven ... sr_252.MP3
My experiences have turned me into an activist for universal health care, or at least a system like Canada, England, or Australia have. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2009 - 04:02 AM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 15102
Location: CA
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What the HELL-O causes all these people to be so abusive toward you, Bob?
Kidney Stone, or not ,that guys balls would have been in his throat if he hit me like that !!!!  |
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