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Post subject:
 Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 05:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 08, 2006
Posts: 243
Location: Tennessee
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Perhaps I missed it amongst the many posts, but I never saw anyone demand a withdrawal of the video. Once it's out there it needs to stay as a symbol of standing behind what one says--I just disagree with the need for Bill to make the remarks to begin with.
I'm very much of the same personality as Bill and I have often come to rue a rebuttal to some stupid comment from a colleague/coworker. I do not think I place Bill on some unobtainable pedestal--just one which leads to the higher road.
Disagreeing is NOT censorship--it is just an opinion--just like Bill's. |
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~ Iddy
A Page of IDIC My Fanfiction Page
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 06:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14327
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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I would never want something removed simply because others didn't like it. I just left a message board that I have been very active on for nearly ten years because some of the leaders are getting so radical in their censorship it has become like a cult.... very different from ten years ago.
I also did not pick up any malice toward George from Bill. What I observed was a concern. I have to wonder if George were just a common person and was coming out with attacks on Bill, would he be deemed a stalker of sorts? And why should Bill remain silent? What is it about public figures always having to hold to the image of Mr. Nice Guy all the time? There are limits to what someone has to put up with.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 10:25 AM
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Posts: 8631
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| So, who asked to have the video removed? How many asked? Just to clear things here, I didn't. Just thought the video made Bill look silly, and was a mistake. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:03 AM
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Well. Always something exciting going on....... 
Paul, just a thought here, that hopefully you will understand. Obviously from what I said, I had no trouble whatsoever with the video. I figure Bill's a grown man, and he can say what he wants, when he wants. And if I don't agree with it, than tough.
But, I'm curious. Your wording made it appear that some of the regulars from this site were the ones who asked you to take it down. Is that the case? Not that I expect you to answer this, but it just brings doubts to everyone's mind, and then it seems as though people feel the need to clear their names, so to speak.
I also noticed that when the site went down, a lot of people seemed genuinely worried that they may have said something that would cause them to be banned. I think you've always been pretty clear when there was a problem with someone, so why do people feel so guilty? Besides, everyone should know that if anyone was going to be banned, it would most likely be me...... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:28 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 7713
Location: 221B Baker Street London
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"Britstarfan...... Your'e fired" |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:35 AM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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Cat, you are the weakest link....
or was that missing link.......  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 11:51 AM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 7713
Location: 221B Baker Street London
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I got TRUMPED.
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 12:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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Or, we could be EXPELLED.......  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 12:32 PM
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Member
Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14327
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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| Cat wrote: | Well. Always something exciting going on.......
Paul, just a thought here, that hopefully you will understand. Obviously from what I said, I had no trouble whatsoever with the video. I figure Bill's a grown man, and he can say what he wants, when he wants. And if I don't agree with it, than tough.
But, I'm curious. Your wording made it appear that some of the regulars from this site were the ones who asked you to take it down. Is that the case? Not that I expect you to answer this, but it just brings doubts to everyone's mind, and then it seems as though people feel the need to clear their names, so to speak.
I also noticed that when the site went down, a lot of people seemed genuinely worried that they may have said something that would cause them to be banned. I think you've always been pretty clear when there was a problem with someone, so why do people feel so guilty? Besides, everyone should know that if anyone was going to be banned, it would most likely be me...... |
Judging from some of the comments I read on the site we were redirected to the day the our site went down, I would say that it may have been someone else. Believe me, if they had shown up here using the kind of language they were using, we would all have been blushing.... including Vito..... btw, where is that rascal anyways? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 01:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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| SMB wrote: | | Cat wrote: | Well. Always something exciting going on.......
Paul, just a thought here, that hopefully you will understand. Obviously from what I said, I had no trouble whatsoever with the video. I figure Bill's a grown man, and he can say what he wants, when he wants. And if I don't agree with it, than tough.
But, I'm curious. Your wording made it appear that some of the regulars from this site were the ones who asked you to take it down. Is that the case? Not that I expect you to answer this, but it just brings doubts to everyone's mind, and then it seems as though people feel the need to clear their names, so to speak.
I also noticed that when the site went down, a lot of people seemed genuinely worried that they may have said something that would cause them to be banned. I think you've always been pretty clear when there was a problem with someone, so why do people feel so guilty? Besides, everyone should know that if anyone was going to be banned, it would most likely be me...... |
Judging from some of the comments I read on the site we were redirected to the day the our site went down, I would say that it may have been someone else. Believe me, if they had shown up here using the kind of language they were using, we would all have been blushing.... including Vito..... btw, where is that rascal anyways? |
Oh my! Just read a few pages of the reply's on the YouTube site. A lot of gratuitous use of the "F" word, and some suggestions to try physical things that appear to be rather awkward, and perhaps unsanitary......
Well, if it was that sort of thing, why not mention it there. I haven't seen anything that bad on here, and it feels like we're the ones getting chastised.
Personally, I plan on pouting and eating excess amounts of Halloween candy.......
I think Vito lost a bit of interest in the site when a certain "Satin" poster was treated less than kindly, and stopped posting. |
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Post subject: Move on George... Please!
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 01:17 PM
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Hello, I'm a new Member!
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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Some thoughts:
George has been making comments about Mister Shatner over the years; a constant drip-drip of insults.
In the early ‘90’s George finally had a chance to air his grievances with Mister Shatner when Bill went to George’s home to interview him for the ‘Star Trek Memories’ book.
This was the PERFECT opportunity to tell Bill everything. He had Bill on his home turf. Time to clear his chest at last…
He said nothing.
Bill left - and it was only when he got to Nichelle and Walter that he was confronted with the hidden resentments.
Since that time George has resumed the drip-drip of insults.
He went from being a very private person to - overnight - becoming a spokesman for gay issues.
He went on the roast and (IMO) went over the top, was vulgar - and frankly not that funny. And there was REAL hatred in his ‘F*** you and the horse you rode in on!” ‘joke’.
Then the wedding.
Bill made a statement at the time that he wished them well and that George deserved some happiness.
The response?
George and his partner PUBLICLY TOYED with the idea of whether they were going to invite Bill or not.
Then they did.
Why not just invite him - or not invite him? No; it had to turn it into a game.
This sounds to me like BAITING Mister Shatner.
After years of being on the receiving end Mister Shatner finally took the bait. It strikes me that the wedding ‘game’ was the straw that finally broke the camel’s back.
George’s response?
He calls Bill’s video ‘baffling’ and that they HAD invited Bill. No mention of the public game that they had played about whether or not that invitation would be sent out.
George, you criticise Bill publicly - REPEATEDLY - for years and are BAFFLED when he criticises you back ONCE?
I stand by Mister Shatner.
Oh, and George, please leave Bill alone now and move on. Yes, you are both tied together forever by Star Trek and nothing you or Bill can do will ever change that. However, you last worked together in 1991: SEVENTEEN years ago!!
Beyond that eternal tie, Bill Shatner should not cross your mind very often. You can be certain that the reverse is true; Bill is a very busy man. But he was gracious enough to wish you well in your new married life.
Also Mister Takei, you make a habit of doing the Vulcan hand signal in public. Whatever happened to IDIC? The diversity of Bill’s character should be appreciated and not maligned. Where is the logic in that?
And no more of your ‘olive branches’ George. I doubt that Bill is interested. Not because he hates you, but because he moved on a long time ago. Perhaps you should too. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 01:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Posts: 14477
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| I've had ones telling me that they are thinking of leaving Bill's site because they feel that Bill isn't paying any attention to his fans here at this particular site. I'm not going to mention names. If you want to leave, leave...don't dilly dally with my emotions. I will get pissed ok? |
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Post subject: Re: Move on George... Please!
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 02:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Posts: 8631
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| Sha-Ka-Ree wrote: | Some thoughts:
George has been making comments about Mister Shatner over the years; a constant drip-drip of insults.
In the early ‘90’s George finally had a chance to air his grievances with Mister Shatner when Bill went to George’s home to interview him for the ‘Star Trek Memories’ book.
This was the PERFECT opportunity to tell Bill everything. He had Bill on his home turf. Time to clear his chest at last…
He said nothing.
Bill left - and it was only when he got to Nichelle and Walter that he was confronted with the hidden resentments.
Since that time George has resumed the drip-drip of insults.
He went from being a very private person to - overnight - becoming a spokesman for gay issues.
He went on the roast and (IMO) went over the top, was vulgar - and frankly not that funny. And there was REAL hatred in his ‘F*** you and the horse you rode in on!” ‘joke’.
Then the wedding.
Bill made a statement at the time that he wished them well and that George deserved some happiness.
The response?
George and his partner PUBLICLY TOYED with the idea of whether they were going to invite Bill or not.
Then they did.
Why not just invite him - or not invite him? No; it had to turn it into a game.
This sounds to me like BAITING Mister Shatner.
After years of being on the receiving end Mister Shatner finally took the bait. It strikes me that the wedding ‘game’ was the straw that finally broke the camel’s back.
George’s response?
He calls Bill’s video ‘baffling’ and that they HAD invited Bill. No mention of the public game that they had played about whether or not that invitation would be sent out.
George, you criticise Bill publicly - REPEATEDLY - for years and are BAFFLED when he criticises you back ONCE?
I stand by Mister Shatner.
Oh, and George, please leave Bill alone now and move on. Yes, you are both tied together forever by Star Trek and nothing you or Bill can do will ever change that. However, you last worked together in 1991: SEVENTEEN years ago!!
Beyond that eternal tie, Bill Shatner should not cross your mind very often. You can be certain that the reverse is true; Bill is a very busy man. But he was gracious enough to wish you well in your new married life.
Also Mister Takei, you make a habit of doing the Vulcan hand signal in public. Whatever happened to IDIC? The diversity of Bill’s character should be appreciated and not maligned. Where is the logic in that?
And no more of your ‘olive branches’ George. I doubt that Bill is interested. Not because he hates you, but because he moved on a long time ago. Perhaps you should too. |
This is clearly from someone "inside shop". |
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Last edited by Harry_Mudd on Oct 26, 2008 - 03:28 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 02:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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Sometimes I read this site, and I just think that there was a huge crack party that I missed out on........ |
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Sha-Ka-Ree |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 02:48 PM
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Hello, I'm a new Member!
Joined: Jun 17, 2008
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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Hi there Harry,
I am most certainly NOT 'inside shop'. I am a fan from the U.K. You and I are just both proving that fans can be articulate and able to express our own honest objective opinions, that's all.
I have been watching this - objectively - over the years and have read all the cast member's autobiographies.
Bill is clearly not perfect. Who is?
My view is coloured by the fact that George did not tell Bill privately when he had the chance. (The 'Star Trek Memories' incident.) I found myself unable to respect any public utterances about Bill after that point.
But yes, I agree it is time to lay this to rest. The Star Trek legacy is bigger than any of the cast. Modern mythology in fact.
This feud will be forgotten in the tides of time.
The work will endure.
That's all that matters. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 02:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Posts: 8631
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| Cat wrote: |
Sometimes I read this site, and I just think that there was a huge crack party that I missed out on........ |
Come and join us!
To be honest, the economy is sinking, wars are going on, Palin exists in the universe... Why on earth do I even comment about this crap between Mr. Shatner and Mr. Takei? It's so churlish of two men in their 70s. The fact that even international media is saying anything about this nonsense is a sad testament of what is labelled news.
Like Mirizor, I have also had e-mails from members who are thinking about abandoning ship. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 03:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Posts: 8631
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| Sha-Ka-Ree wrote: | Hi there Harry,
I am most certainly NOT 'inside shop'. |
Paul will pick up on my faux pas and explain how some fans are a bit cranky... Remember when some folks thought Bill was secretly in the movie, but isn't? Stupid nutters! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 03:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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| Harry_Mudd wrote: | | Cat wrote: |
Sometimes I read this site, and I just think that there was a huge crack party that I missed out on........ |
Come and join us!
To be honest, the economy is sinking, wars are going on, Palin exists in the universe... Why on earth do I even comment about this crap between Mr. Shatner and Mr. Takei? It's so churlish of two men in their 70s. The fact that even international media is saying anything about this nonsense is a sad testament of what is labelled news.
Like Mirizor, I have also had e-mails from members who are thinking about abandoning ship. |
Seriously, why do any of us give a rip about this "disagreement" between the two men. Or argue about the new ST movie. Or argue about politics.
Because the economy is sinking, wars are going on, Biden exists in the Universe..... I think it's just a release valve for the many stresses we are under in "real" life. Why, if I couldn't argue politics with you, I'd have to kick the dog, or kick my husband. And I'd feel guilty if I kicked the dog.......  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 03:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 07, 2002
Posts: 8631
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| Cat wrote: |
Seriously, why do any of us give a rip about this "disagreement" between the two men. Or argue about the new ST movie. Or argue about politics.
Because the economy is sinking, wars are going on, Biden exists in the Universe..... I think it's just a release valve for the many stresses we are under in "real" life. Why, if I couldn't argue politics with you, I'd have to kick the dog, or kick my husband. And I'd feel guilty if I kicked the dog....... |
Politics is one thing that I do think is good sport to discuss. Even if the chit-chat here does not persuade our opponents, it does help to hone a sharper political sense of where we ourselves stand on issues. That's fun and better than being apolitical and floating to the calls of our government without thought.
BUT, getting back to Bill, he posted this silly video in the public arena, with the sole intention to incite controversy. He knew that people would be chatting about it. However, if the issue is of such major severity for him, why doesn't he just deal with it privately, instead of going public with a pointless rant that made him look a bit ridiculous? I will waste no more of my time discussing it... NOT unless he pays me a big fat cheque to do so. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 07:02 PM
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Member
Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14327
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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OK folks, Just because Bill and George are having a round of cyber mud wrestling, doesn't mean that we need to start slinging mud at each other. Bill and George are big boys who can settle their own differences without our interference.
Lets just all sit back and enjoy each other's company until this all blows over.
Note: I do think that it is a bit strange that all of this is happening so close to the election. Do I sense one of those Hollywood smoke screens? And, what is happening in the world that someone doesn't want us to know about until it may be too late?
Stay vigilant! The wolves may be circling. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 07:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 907
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| Paul wrote: | | Bill did choose to do this video and you have to remember the real issue is George's continued berating of Bill in the Press - not the fact he didn't get invited to the wedding but the press behind George's statements to the press that he was not inviting Bill. |
For better or worse, the real issue is obfuscated.
Lisabeth's question targets the non-invite, and the title of the video is "Shatner on Sulu Wedding Snub", so there's no surprise that the media and most viewers believe this video is a response to the wedding snub. Nowhere in the video does Bill say anything like "I don't mind that I wasn't invited". Instead, he jumps right at George's mental condition.
Bill lives in a society where the mainstream population is seriously messed up about sexuality. Look at the widespread fuss and FCC intervention over the appearance of Janet Jackson's nipple on national TV. Just by mentioning George's sexuality, in the same context as "psychosis", Bill has invited accusations of being homophobic or anti-gay. I've seen this on some gossip sites.
Bill's tactless way is prone to offend the hypersensitive, especially the needy "politically correct" who seek to be offended so that they can get up on their victim soapbox.
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The Free & Open Productivity Software Suite (Windows & Linux)...
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 07:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 04, 2003
Posts: 8931
Location: Planet Earth
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Why put the word wedding in between quotation marks. As far as I understand, it was a legally binding wedding under the laws of the State of California.
| britstarfan wrote: | | Would Bill have gone, to the "wedding" even IF he had been invited?.It would have been a nice gesture on both sides.Hopefully sometime soon someone will offer the olive branch, before it really is too late. |
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"OVER 9000"
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 08:02 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 7713
Location: 221B Baker Street London
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| Debb wrote: | Why put the word wedding in between quotation marks. As far as I understand, it was a legally binding wedding under the laws of the State of California.
| britstarfan wrote: | | Would Bill have gone, to the "wedding" even IF he had been invited?.It would have been a nice gesture on both sides.Hopefully sometime soon someone will offer the olive branch, before it really is too late. |
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In the biblical sense marriage is between male and female, and many Christians point out that the Bible says that man shall not lie with man ( I'm not a religious person so i can't give you the chapter and verse), so there are objections to using the term marriage from certain people .
Not every country ( or State) shows identical legal status to a gay couple, which they do to a hetrosexual couple.Some do not recognise "gay marriages" at all, and gay partners do not have rights, no matter how many years they have been together. In some countries gay marriage,and homosexuality itself is forbidden and not recognised at all.
In fact right up until 1967 here in the U.K it was against the law.Homosexuals faced up to life in prison if they were caught, or "outed."
In many places gay couples are not allowed to use the term marriage, insted Civil union, civil partnership, domestic partnership.
So yes in the U.S and other countries that recognise Gay marriages , they are legally married, but in those that do not.... they are not ( if you see what i mean) |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 08:53 PM
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Member
Joined: Sep 18, 2005
Posts: 4619
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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At this rate, Howard Stern is going to ask George back to the show, this time as a co-host. Translation .... GREAT BIG PAY INCREASE.
George, thank Bill.
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 26, 2008 - 09:05 PM
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This account has been Permanently Banned
Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 7713
Location: 221B Baker Street London
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| Ratings would go through the roof for that one, if Bill was there too |
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