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Johnny_Turbo |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Sep 29, 2008 - 07:48 PM
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Posts: 5585
Location: Chillville, PA
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Interesting to think about this mindless term of "hate crime". Can anyone tell me about a murderer that didn't hate (exclude the criminally insane)? What about assault or battery? Was it ever done WITHOUT hate?
Think about the term "hate crime" and try to think of a crime of a similar nature without that label that didn't have an element of hate. Then think about why this term was invented. |
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Johnny_Turbo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 - 07:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 5585
Location: Chillville, PA
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| littlestar wrote: | I see these random acts of Violence as actions from an impotent group of society that are unable to function on a normal level...hardly the norm, or reflective of all of USA...I suspect we will hear of more of these kinds of incidents as people are growing ever more fearful....
I have reported the same types of incidents toward NA's here and it was ignored, as well.... |
It's really a shame to watch these silent movies and see how the "NA's" were treated in society. Really terrible. Like this baseball player who was really cool and was blamed for something he didn't do. They went to get a governor's stay of execution...it was granted and on it's way by horseback, but too late. They just decided to shoot the guy anyway. Based on a true story, as the movie said. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 - 08:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 8400
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| Johnny_Turbo wrote: |
Interesting to think about this mindless term of "hate crime". Can anyone tell me about a murderer that didn't hate (exclude the criminally insane)? What about assault or battery? Was it ever done WITHOUT hate?
Think about the term "hate crime" and try to think of a crime of a similar nature without that label that didn't have an element of hate. Then think about why this term was invented. |
I would think the difference is that a "hate crime" is motivated solely by negative feelings for a person based on their ethic origin. There are lots of motives for murder...financial gain, jealousy etc etc |
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Johnny_Turbo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 - 08:59 PM
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Posts: 5585
Location: Chillville, PA
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| greenchick wrote: |
I would think the difference is that a "hate crime" is motivated solely by negative feelings for a person based on their ethic origin. There are lots of motives for murder...financial gain, jealousy etc etc |
Negative feelings based on ethnicity, religion is bigotry. Maybe you could argue that is a specific form of hatred. It's stupid to call it a "hate crime" based on the logic that killing someone for another reason isn't hate. Sure, you can have other motivations like monetary gain or jealousy, but to act to the point of intentionally killing someone...I'm pretty damn sure that's hate!! I don't care what other kind of terms people want to include with it, it's still hate!
If bald guy shoots "other" bald guy, that's hate! Hate for another reason but still hate.
I hate hate. We should hate, then kill all the haters. Lock 'em up, call 'em haters, then hate them as well. Hate, hate hate. Kind of juvenile. |
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C'mon, The Tanner, check his I.D.
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2008 - 10:26 PM
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| OK then. Most other crimes have some sort of payoff for the perp, financial or emotional satisfaction if you like. There is some sort of connection, however perverted, with the victim. In a hate crime, there is no connection with the victim, it could be any member of the hated ethnic group. there is no personal satisfaction for the perp except the pleasure of hurting a member of a particular ethnic group. |
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rdb |
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Posted: Sep 29, 2008 - 11:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Lakeland Florida
Status: Offline
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One thing I've noticed is the people who want Hate Crime legislation done away with is that they usually have a group they want to hate and persecute. There are church groups that are actively working against the Hate Crime label, and the reality is these groups support the outlawing of the EXISTENCE of LGBT people. In other words, they don't want their Hate to be called what it is. (My experience with these churches is that they're also quite bigoted against other groups as well- like Muslims, Native Americans, and others.)
The motivation for the crimes is hate. A criminal usually doesn't hate their victim- they usually think of them as just targets to be ripped off. Many think they have a RIGHT to rob/steal/kill/whatever (well documented)! So, the term Hate Crime is very accurate and should be punished to a greater degree, because the motivation is hatred.
It's like the people I've encountered who want Affirmative Action done away with- in every case where I've listened to a person speak against affirmative action- later they say things that are purely racist. Usually, the comment (most of these come from business owners) is that they won't hire ______ (put in the most common hate names like the "N word") because they are ______ (put in the most common derisive and wrong stereotype). In other words, they don't want Affirmative Action because they don't want to have to hire minorities, just because they ARE minorities.
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JT- let's see... I grew up hearing how bad those "blankety blank liberals were" (and believed it)... and after being treated like s**t for most of my life, discovered that those same hated liberals were the only ones who made a real effort to help- instead of telling me to "get a job" when encountering my limitations (something I grew used to hearing), the liberals helped me to find ways to function IN SPITE OF my health (and made the effort- the minor changes- that I needed to function). Instead of telling me that everything bad is "because you must have committed some sin!" or "you must not be positive enough!", those "dastardly" liberals pointed out the REAL cause of much of the misery we've been put through- they saw the truth and once it was pointed out, it became clear. Instead of consigning me to grunt labor (the usual experience), they saw that I had an actual brain in my head that worked fairly well, and have helped and encouraged me to use it.
In short, I grew up in conservative America, and was treated worse than any dog. I finally went among those "hated" Liberals, and discovered people that enabled me to function and treated me honestly, honorably, and like a human being.
I could easily and truthfully say that unlike most of the people I've encountered in the past- the Liberals REALLY CARED. They LISTENED.
I've seen the truth of America. There is some good, yes. Much of what is portrayed as "Good" has a second side to the story- and there is a great deal of evil IN and DONE BY this country. Rather than "La La La nothing's wrong, America never does anything wrong!!!", I'd rather speak the truth about what I see. America is the most powerful nation in the world, that is obvious. As to being the "greatest"- that I strenuously disagree with. I would LIKE to see it become the greatest, but there is a lot of wrong that must be made right.
This gassing of a mosque- that's just some of the bad. The sad part is that it's being fed by hate literature- spread to advance the cause of one major political party (and it's certainly not the one associated with liberals). I would like to see that changed in this country.
I would like to see an America I could truly be proud of. Then I might start considering myself an American. Right now, I don't- and I don't feel that for the most part, America considers me anything more than a source of tax revenue and profit. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2008 - 02:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 9896
Location: I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.--Abraham Lincoln
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| A hate crime is a crime that is motivated by dislike of a race, religion, ethnicity, national origin, disability sexual orientation or gender. |
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Let's do it as a memorial to Joyce Mason
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Johnny_Turbo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2008 - 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 5585
Location: Chillville, PA
Status: Online!
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| SMB wrote: | | A hate crime is a crime that is motivated by dislike of a race, religion, ethnicity, national origin, disability sexual orientation or gender. |
Again, that's bigotry. People can say that's a motivation for a crime and I can accept that. What I cannot accept is the term "hate crime" to try to distinguish it from any other similar crime where the victim is STILL a victim of "hate". No matter what religion, disability or orientation may be for a victim, it doesn't prove to me that any other similar types of crime were NOT hate. It's just a stupid term. It's like "climate change" or "ATM machine". By definition, it makes no sense. |
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Debb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2008 - 03:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 04, 2003
Posts: 3281
Location: 45°28' N 73°45' W
Status: Offline
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Ratings. News channels and newspapers select those stories that sell papers and tv advertising.
Right now, the economy is the hot topic... and the elections.
and maybe the environment. But acts of terror... this has been ongoing all over the world and reporting it won't sell papers.
That being said... I hope all those kids will recover and they catch the person(s) responsible. |
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Johnny_Turbo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2008 - 03:49 PM
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Member
Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Posts: 5585
Location: Chillville, PA
Status: Online!
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| rdb wrote: | One thing I've noticed is the people who want Hate Crime legislation done away with is that they usually have a group they want to hate and persecute. There are church groups that are actively working against the Hate Crime label, and the reality is these groups support the outlawing of the EXISTENCE of LGBT people. In other words, they don't want their Hate to be called what it is. (My experience with these churches is that they're also quite bigoted against other groups as well- like Muslims, Native Americans, and others.)
The motivation for the crimes is hate. A criminal usually doesn't hate their victim- they usually think of them as just targets to be ripped off. Many think they have a RIGHT to rob/steal/kill/whatever (well documented)! So, the term Hate Crime is very accurate and should be punished to a greater degree, because the motivation is hatred.
It's like the people I've encountered who want Affirmative Action done away with- in every case where I've listened to a person speak against affirmative action- later they say things that are purely racist. Usually, the comment (most of these come from business owners) is that they won't hire ______ (put in the most common hate names like the "N word") because they are ______ (put in the most common derisive and wrong stereotype). In other words, they don't want Affirmative Action because they don't want to have to hire minorities, just because they ARE minorities.
=======
JT- let's see... I grew up hearing how bad those "blankety blank liberals were" (and believed it)... and after being treated like s**t for most of my life, discovered that those same hated liberals were the only ones who made a real effort to help- instead of telling me to "get a job" when encountering my limitations (something I grew used to hearing), the liberals helped me to find ways to function IN SPITE OF my health (and made the effort- the minor changes- that I needed to function). Instead of telling me that everything bad is "because you must have committed some sin!" or "you must not be positive enough!", those "dastardly" liberals pointed out the REAL cause of much of the misery we've been put through- they saw the truth and once it was pointed out, it became clear. Instead of consigning me to grunt labor (the usual experience), they saw that I had an actual brain in my head that worked fairly well, and have helped and encouraged me to use it.
In short, I grew up in conservative America, and was treated worse than any dog. I finally went among those "hated" Liberals, and discovered people that enabled me to function and treated me honestly, honorably, and like a human being.
I could easily and truthfully say that unlike most of the people I've encountered in the past- the Liberals REALLY CARED. They LISTENED.
I've seen the truth of America. There is some good, yes. Much of what is portrayed as "Good" has a second side to the story- and there is a great deal of evil IN and DONE BY this country. Rather than "La La La nothing's wrong, America never does anything wrong!!!", I'd rather speak the truth about what I see. America is the most powerful nation in the world, that is obvious. As to being the "greatest"- that I strenuously disagree with. I would LIKE to see it become the greatest, but there is a lot of wrong that must be made right.
This gassing of a mosque- that's just some of the bad. The sad part is that it's being fed by hate literature- spread to advance the cause of one major political party (and it's certainly not the one associated with liberals). I would like to see that changed in this country.
I would like to see an America I could truly be proud of. Then I might start considering myself an American. Right now, I don't- and I don't feel that for the most part, America considers me anything more than a source of tax revenue and profit. |
1. To me, the motivation for ANY type of crime, like murder, is hate. If a guy beats up or kills another guy who has a very similar background, it's still hate. But the law, as it is now, wouldn't classify it under a "hate crime". That's just plain foolish, IMO.
2. I grew up in Liberal America. The hippies were violent scumbags who spit on Viet Nam vets and beat up little kids like me. The Hippies beat up and tortured little kids like me daily and I was too small to do anything about it. When I grew up, I could've exacted revenge but I didn't.
It didn't turn me against Liberals or my country. We all can share our horror stories. We can also overcome, forgive and keep a positive outlook so we can grow and learn. Otherwise, we'll wallow in a sea of self-pity and waste our lives in a spiraling vortex of unhappiness. I'm not gonna waste my life focusing on the bad.
3. There are good liberals and bad liberals. Same with conservatives. When people can get beyond labels, political affiliations, understand that all "truth" isn't bad and that looking at the good points of the U.S. isn't looking through rose-colored glasses, then we'll be able to move forward. It'll happen. |
_________________
C'mon, The Tanner, check his I.D.
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