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Post subject: Stretching the controversial subjects
 Posted: Sep 13, 2008 - 07:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 9896
Location: I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.--Abraham Lincoln
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This is open to everyone but is primarily for those living in the USA because we take our religious freedom for granted sometimes. Just curious to how people would react if it were suddenly taken away.
If someone came into your place of worship and told you that people who were caught openly practicing their religion would be arrested, do you think people would:
A. Stand up, practice anyways and be arrested?
B. Buckle under, walk out and no longer practice?
C. Go into hiding?
D. Do something else? |
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Let's do it as a memorial to Joyce Mason
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 13, 2008 - 07:53 PM
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Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Posts: 10561
Location: Never you mind where I'm at! You don't need to be knowing! Snoops!
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Interesting...I feel confident that resistance would be met from my church. We'd practice openly. When the stormtroopers come and those that manage to escape are established somewhere else, then they would practice in secret until the days of freedom come again.
Open practicing is honorable and brave, but a faith will get decimated without underground resistance.  I'm sure that other faiths have had to do the same thing at one time or another. |
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Last edited by angel on Sep 13, 2008 - 08:11 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject: Re: Stretching the controversial subjects
Posted: Sep 13, 2008 - 08:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 7576
Location: 221B Baker Street London
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| SMB wrote: | This is open to everyone but is primarily for those living in the USA because we take our religious freedom for granted sometimes. Just curious to how people would react if it were suddenly taken away.
If someone came into your place of worship and told you that people who were caught openly practicing their religion would be arrested, do you think people would:
A. Stand up, practice anyways and be arrested?
B. Buckle under, walk out and no longer practice?
C. Go into hiding?
D. Do something else? |
That has already happened in many places over even recent years, one only has to think of things that happened in Europe, before and during the second world war the Nazi persecution of the Jews for example.Also in the former Soviet Union, where Russian Orthodoxy was banned under Stalins rule, which led to the imprisoning or killing many of the clergy and of the faithful. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 05:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 9896
Location: I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.--Abraham Lincoln
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| I know that practically from Colonial time until the mid seventies, Native Americans were forbidden to practice their religion. Each tribal nation had their own. Many practiced in secret. Today, most Native religious ceremonies are private due to exploitation of outsiders. The particular dates, times and places are often known only to the participating tribal people. |
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Let's do it as a memorial to Joyce Mason
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 05:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Posts: 9206
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| SMB wrote: | | I know that practically from Colonial time until the mid seventies, Native Americans were forbidden to practice their religion. Each tribal nation had their own. Many practiced in secret. Today, most Native religious ceremonies are private due to exploitation of outsiders. The particular dates, times and places are often known only to the participating tribal people. |
That is really sad when you think about it Sue. I don't blame them for keeping it private. |
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Knowledge is power....
but if used unwisely,
it will destroy you.
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Cuzsis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 07:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 4212
Location: Outer Space ;)
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I don't go to a church.
But I would practice privately if it were me, and not flaunt it of course.
Come to think of it, that's more or less what I've done for a few years now. As the religious right (so-called) has given Christians a bad name in my neck of the woods.
I do the whole "try to live by example thing" and let them find out later that I'm Christian. Seems to be doing alright.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 07:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 9896
Location: I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.--Abraham Lincoln
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That is why I worded the question the way I did. I wanted to include everyone, even practicing Atheists. It would seem that it doesn't matter what label we use, or what rituals we practice, our religion is actually how we conduct our daily lives.
I do wonder about the government offering grants to faith based ministries. I wonder if it is the beginning of governmental manipulation, very subtle right now, but well worth keeping an eye on. I am beginning to sense wolves among the sheep, so to speak. |
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Let's do it as a memorial to Joyce Mason
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 12:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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| My choice would be A. My faith is one of the few things I would be willing to die for. I'm not talking about pushing my faith on anyone else, but I would be willing to be honest and admit what my beliefs were, even if it meant detainment or death. I figure if he died for me, I should be willing to do the same. |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 02:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 9896
Location: I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.--Abraham Lincoln
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| Cat wrote: | | My choice would be A. My faith is one of the few things I would be willing to die for. I'm not talking about pushing my faith on anyone else, but I would be willing to be honest and admit what my beliefs were, even if it meant detainment or death. I figure if he died for me, I should be willing to do the same. |
I agree Cat. I also wonder if folks of different faiths would suddenly come together as allies to stand up to those who would deny them their freedom. |
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Let's do it as a memorial to Joyce Mason
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 04:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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| SMB wrote: | | Cat wrote: | | My choice would be A. My faith is one of the few things I would be willing to die for. I'm not talking about pushing my faith on anyone else, but I would be willing to be honest and admit what my beliefs were, even if it meant detainment or death. I figure if he died for me, I should be willing to do the same. |
I agree Cat. I also wonder if folks of different faiths would suddenly come together as allies to stand up to those who would deny them their freedom. |
It would almost be worth having something happen, small scale, to get people to put aside their differences, and come together for something beyond themselves.
That's what I always think when I see the alien invasion movies. How people are forced to put aside all the silly things we fight over, and band together. Too bad we aren't more like cats. I've seen our cats argue over a place to lie in the sun, but I never saw them squabble over fur color..... |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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rdb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 06:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Lakeland Florida
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IMO, this illustrates the importance of the separation of church and state. Governments tend to be rule-bound and bureaucrats tend to want to throw their weight around- and there are instances of both the persecution of religion (I can think of several instances of the persecution of Christianity, and NA religions have been severely persecuted) and the forcing of one religion on others (examples- government support of the proselytizing of Native Americans and Jews, as well as the "close scrutiny" of Muslims).
My personal beliefs about Christianity is that Christians should WANT to support and protect other religions and those who practice them, as this would be showing respect and kindness to the Other. As a Square Ground Christian I try to respect and support others in their beliefs, even though I may not agree with them (but I will at times say why I disagree with them). |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 06:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2005
Posts: 594
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Sue, what if someone came into your classroom and arrested you for what you were teaching?
Like oh say, what happened to John T. Scopes.... 
It's still science v. fundamentalism in this country which belief system do you think is prevailing? |
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scientia non habet inimicvm nisi ignorantem
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rdb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 06:59 PM
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Location: Lakeland Florida
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Jena- that's getting into the difference between science (where things can be tested and disproved) vs religion (where things cannot be tested and thus disproved).
However, I also would say that you have a valid question, and that is a real problem today.
I might add that I help to teach evolution and the difference between science and pseudoscience. I've been told I was going to hell, that I wasn't a Christian, and that I was a liar because of this- by people who didn't know me from Adam.
BTW- science by definition is NOT a belief system. I've heard people wrongly call it a religion- but religions are not based on testability and repeatability. |
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Jami |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 07:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 1604
Location: California
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Seems to me that people are already doing this in a way. Athiests belittling people for beliving in God. But you know what? You can no more prove 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt God doesn't exist then I can prove 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that He/She does exist. So either way you're taking it on faith, which makes athieism a religion. And honestly, the athiests I meet are so childish and hypocritical that I have to say, "God exists, grow up and get over yourself you big whiney baby."
I wouldn't say I'd die for my faith, persay, but I sure wouldn't let any putz from stopping me from practicing it. God wants us to live as long as we can. I don't think He/She really approves of maytars because that's a type of sucide. Kind of like the whole "sucide by cop." I'd fight to live and practice my faith.
I don't believe in "one true religion." But I do believe some religions can be wrong in their practices - marrying young girls off to old men, marrying first cousins to each other, putting one gender down (here in Costa Mesa we have a cult where it's the men who are subserviant to the women, it's like reverse Muslims where the men have to walk 3 steps behind the women, the women own everything including the men's property, etc - but the women have to sign it all over to the Piecemakers), killing people in the name of their gods - and of course worshiping evil like Satanists do - and I'm not talking about those athiests who call themselves Satanists for shock value, I'm talking about the kind who believe in raping children, sacrificing animals, etc in the name of Satan. I think these practices in religions should be stopped. It's not persecution to take children away from a group that believes it's okay to marry their 13 year old daughters off to 60 year old men to be raped and beaten. God doesn't approve of that. You don't even have to believe in God to know that. You just have to read things like "Whatever is abhorent to you do not do onto others" aka "Love thy neighbor/Do onto others as you would have them do onto you." |
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~Jami JoAnne Russell~
www.jamisings.com
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rdb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2008 - 07:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Lakeland Florida
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True, Jami- I would agree with your definition of atheism. HOWEVER, this is an important point-
Most of the atheists I've met were people who had been so severely hurt by fundamentalist churches that they HAD to go the other way (in order to maintain any sense of sanity).
Some were as you described (we have such a group on campus), but others were very tolerant of religion- I've heard at least one person say "You can believe what you want, but I don't believe there is a God".
One of the biggest lies I've heard told about science and scientists is that we're all atheist. Sorry, Charlie- not true. As for me, I am a Square Ground person- I follow a pre-Columbian form of Christianity native to the Southeastern US AND I am a scientist. Most of the scientists I know are people of faith- some Jewish, some Christian, even Muslim scientists. I know one or two atheist scientists, but as far as I can tell, they are not the norm (and surveys I've read support what I've observed!)
Science and religion are not adversaries- they operate in different realms. |
Last edited by rdb on Sep 15, 2008 - 12:59 AM; edited 1 time in total
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