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ASB |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 02:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 414
Location: Country NSW
Status: Offline
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Never we will always have a laugh about our political leaders, thats what they are for.
Mind you trying to paint Obama as some kind of Osama is a little strange considering the close business ties Dubya has with Saudi oil families incluing the Bin Laden family.
It looks a little desperate to me.
I was in Sydney today and there are Young People all over for the World Youth Day. Heaps of internatinal flags being waved or worn as capes, the different countries represented is amazing and they are having so much fun.
Its nice that Sydney is one place on Earth that so many can do this with no risk of backlash, makes you proud. |
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When Hell Freezes Over I'll Ski There Too
E=M'Ski Squared.
Ausi Ski Bum (ASB)
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 04:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 26, 2002
Posts: 1111
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| ASB wrote: | Mind you trying to paint Obama as some kind of Osama is a little strange considering the close business ties Dubya has with Saudi oil families incluing the Bin Laden family.
It looks a little desperate to me. |
The problem is that is about all you hear. BS from both sides. They get elected by sling all the mud they can.
Then you have all these "educated" americans believing the rhetoric and name calling and run with it...right to the polls.
Most don't even have a clue who or what they are voting for. They pull a straight ticket or vote for whoever and whatever their unions, companies, democrat or republican groups say to. Most aren't able to think for themselves or see the truth when it is right in front of them. |
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"Those Who Would Sacrifice Freedom For Temporary Security Deserve Neither" Ben Franklin
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free...It expects what never was and never will be." Thomas Jefferson
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 15, 2008 - 04:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 4745
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| Batman wrote: |
Most don't even have a clue who or what they are voting for. They pull a straight ticket or vote for whoever and whatever their unions, companies, democrat or republican groups say to. Most aren't able to think for themselves or see the truth when it is right in front of them. |
Good point. It's a shame that more people don't bother to educate themselves as to the candidates views on important issues. It's sad that a lot of people just vote for whoever they are told to, without finding out what the candidate represents. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 - 03:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 414
Location: Country NSW
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Thats not just an American thing Cat. People fight and die for the right to vote then when they get it they treat it with contempt.
The very different views on Iraq certainly make the two candidates stand apart, Obama makes a very strong stand right or wrong and McCain says he knows how to win wars.
Personally I prefer not to get into wars in the first place, the Iraq war has cost America and its allies so much and for what, it certainly is difficult to find a real reason or bennefit. Withdrawing is not losing, you have to leave sooner or later, this war is already longer than both WW1 and WW2.
Afganistan is where the greater effort should be, that was a justified action and one that was never finnished properly. Australia is withdrawing from Iraq but increasing its effort in Afganistan.
Surely after five years if the Iraq Government has not got itsact together, they never will. Give them a dead line and they will have more incentive to actually get off their butts and do something. |
_________________
When Hell Freezes Over I'll Ski There Too
E=M'Ski Squared.
Ausi Ski Bum (ASB)
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 - 07:29 AM
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 01:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 4745
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| ASB wrote: | Thats not just an American thing Cat. People fight and die for the right to vote then when they get it they treat it with contempt.
The very different views on Iraq certainly make the two candidates stand apart, Obama makes a very strong stand right or wrong and McCain says he knows how to win wars.
Personally I prefer not to get into wars in the first place, the Iraq war has cost America and its allies so much and for what, it certainly is difficult to find a real reason or bennefit. Withdrawing is not losing, you have to leave sooner or later, this war is already longer than both WW1 and WW2.
Afganistan is where the greater effort should be, that was a justified action and one that was never finnished properly. Australia is withdrawing from Iraq but increasing its effort in Afganistan.
Surely after five years if the Iraq Government has not got itsact together, they never will. Give them a dead line and they will have more incentive to actually get off their butts and do something. |
Sad but true, that we seldom appreciate what we have.
This is of course JMO, but I doubt the Iraqi government will be successful. You can't go into a country, and try to convince them that they should adopt your form of government, when you were never asked to be there in the first place. I'm not sorry to see that SOB Sadam gone, but this sure wasn't the way to go about it.
I think Afganistan has it's own problems. I didn't like the Taliban, but with it's removal you open the field, literally, to poppy growers. So, now instead of the Taliban, you have drug dealers, and this is the major source of revenue.
Sometimes the world is a really screwed up place...........  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 03:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 414
Location: Country NSW
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You have to ask the question, if its taken five years so far and still no peace, how the hell did Saddam keep the peace so well.
I get so concerned when you hear the bluster about Iran now, Iran has a mad leader but he has very little influence on their country, he will be thrown out next election anyway as the people of Iran don’t think much of him either. The younger generation in Iran are actually quite fond of the west, Iran was one of the few middle east countries that had an out-poring of grief with the news of 9/11. They are quite liberal and any move against them could see this positive thinking reversed, Iran will change through Generational change no wars required.
Obama is quite right to plan on talking with Iran there is a lot to be gained and nothing to be lost.
On Obama it is interesting how he is traveling to Iraq pre announced and with significant warning, most visitors turn up unannounced for security reasons, will make his visit a lot harder to police. I wonder however if he is viewed as the enemy or as a chance of hope. Guess we will see next week. |
_________________
When Hell Freezes Over I'll Ski There Too
E=M'Ski Squared.
Ausi Ski Bum (ASB)
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 03:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 4745
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| ASB wrote: | You have to ask the question, if its taken five years so far and still no peace, how the hell did Saddam keep the peace so well.
I get so concerned when you hear the bluster about Iran now, Iran has a mad leader but he has very little influence on their country, he will be thrown out next election anyway as the people of Iran don’t think much of him either. The younger generation in Iran are actually quite fond of the west, Iran was one of the few middle east countries that had an out-poring of grief with the news of 9/11. They are quite liberal and any move against them could see this positive thinking reversed, Iran will change through Generational change no wars required.
Obama is quite right to plan on talking with Iran there is a lot to be gained and nothing to be lost.
On Obama it is interesting how he is traveling to Iraq pre announced and with significant warning, most visitors turn up unannounced for security reasons, will make his visit a lot harder to police. I wonder however if he is viewed as the enemy or as a chance of hope. Guess we will see next week. |
As far as Sadam goes, it's not hard to keep the peace when you simply kill everyone who disagrees with you. Mass murders tend to keep things quiet.
I'm afraid I have to disagree about Obama and Iran. I do believe that the young people want to change their country, but that does not always mean change, as we've seen in China. Elections aren't always fair. I certainly don't want war with Iran, but Ahmanutjob wants to bring the 12th Iman, and end times by causing war and chaos. You can't reason with someone who is insane. I have no doubt that he will simply lie to Obama, and if Obama falls for it, we could wind up with the same sort of situation as we did in the late 30's, when people believed that Hitler posed no real threat. |
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It's hard to be serious when you're naked.
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2008 - 05:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 1810
Location: Here for the moment; don't waste it.
Status: Offline
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| Cat wrote: | | [ I have no doubt that he will simply lie to Obama, and if Obama falls for it, we could wind up with the same sort of situation as we did in the late 30's, when people believed that Hitler posed no real threat. |
Indeed. Great analogy and one which is dangerously close to becoming a reality.  |
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Have you ever noticed how some days you just get washed over by the sense of cosmic emptiness and lack of meaning? ................
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 - 02:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 414
Location: Country NSW
Status: Offline
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Obama will not need to meet with him, he also faces an election early next year and will most likely be thrown out, no one expected Ahmanutjob (good name) to win last time. The more moderates around him have far more power over affairs in Iran than those around Saddam ever had, remember Saddam was never really a threat he just kept his power base by appearing to be a bigger threat than he was. Most Iranians love the fact that the west removed Saddam following their long and bitter war with him.
My biggest concern though is how Ahmanutjob is reported on US media compared to how he is reported on BBC and other news media such as AU. He comes over as this huge world threat on US media and just another nut job everywhere else. The biggest fear that many have is not the nut jobs but the bluster coming out of the US, I am sorry to say but that scares the hell out of me more than Ahmanutjob.
The reason so many OS people like Obama is he represents a toning down of the constant threat warnings. Don't forget the fact that in times of unrest people tend not to change Governments so there is a lot to be gained from developing the environment of fear. The thing is do this for to long and it will turn around and do the opposite and people will change Governments. It worked for Bush (and Howard in Aust) in 2004 but it wont work in 2008. |
_________________
When Hell Freezes Over I'll Ski There Too
E=M'Ski Squared.
Ausi Ski Bum (ASB)
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 - 03:41 AM
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Member
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Posts: 10407
Location: Never you mind where I'm at! You don't need to be knowing! Snoops!
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| ASB wrote: |
My biggest concern though is how Ahmanutjob is reported on US media compared to how he is reported on BBC and other news media such as AU. He comes over as this huge world threat on US media and just another nut job everywhere else. The biggest fear that many have is not the nut jobs but the bluster coming out of the US, I am sorry to say but that scares the hell out of me more than Ahmanutjob.
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It seems like mass panic, but where there's smoke there's fire. The wolf at the door always has his "version" of the story. Better to be cautious and build a strong defense then be left with nothing but a flimsy one and our bacon fried. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 - 03:44 AM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 4745
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| ASB wrote: | Obama will not need to meet with him, he also faces an election early next year and will most likely be thrown out, no one expected Ahmanutjob (good name) to win last time. The more moderates around him have far more power over affairs in Iran than those around Saddam ever had, remember Saddam was never really a threat he just kept his power base by appearing to be a bigger threat than he was. Most Iranians love the fact that the west removed Saddam following their long and bitter war with him.
My biggest concern though is how Ahmanutjob is reported on US media compared to how he is reported on BBC and other news media such as AU. He comes over as this huge world threat on US media and just another nut job everywhere else. The biggest fear that many have is not the nut jobs but the bluster coming out of the US, I am sorry to say but that scares the hell out of me more than Ahmanutjob.
The reason so many OS people like Obama is he represents a toning down of the constant threat warnings. Don't forget the fact that in times of unrest people tend not to change Governments so there is a lot to be gained from developing the environment of fear. The thing is do this for to long and it will turn around and do the opposite and people will change Governments. It worked for Bush (and Howard in Aust) in 2004 but it wont work in 2008. |
I never felt Saddam was a threat to the US, but he was responsible for the murder of thousands of people. I suppose he could have been considered a threat to them......
Ahmanutjob may or may not be re-elected. Elections are not always honest, and the results can surprise everyone. I don't look at him so much as a threat to the US, but I do believe he poses a very real threat to Israel. If he should attack them, or if Israel attacks Iran because it sees a proposed threat, then there is the possibility of other countries becoming involved, and a very nasty conflict ensuing. This is the very real threat I see.
Both candidates have said that if Iran should attack Israel, that the US would react. (Hillary said the same, very strongly worded)
To refuse to see any threats is naive and dangerous. We vaccinate our kids against the possibility of disease. We have fire alarms because of the possibility of fire. We lock our doors because of the possibility of theft. We look both ways before we cross the street because of the possibility of traffic coming our way. There is the possibility of an attack on Israel by Iran. Does it make any less sense to deal with that, than use fire alarms, vaccinate against disease, lock our doors, or take care in traffic?
No one thought there would be a terrorist attack against the US. It didn't take an entire country to accomplish it. Just a few select nut jobs, and thousands died. Bad things happen. Bad people exist. It's crazy not to deal with that, and to ignore it pretty much ensures people will die. Again, look at the late 1930's. If people had dealt with the fact that Hitler did indeed pose a threat, a lot of innocent people may have been saved. In my mind, there is no excuse for making the same mistake twice. JMO |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 - 03:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 4745
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| angel wrote: | | ASB wrote: |
My biggest concern though is how Ahmanutjob is reported on US media compared to how he is reported on BBC and other news media such as AU. He comes over as this huge world threat on US media and just another nut job everywhere else. The biggest fear that many have is not the nut jobs but the bluster coming out of the US, I am sorry to say but that scares the hell out of me more than Ahmanutjob.
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It seems like mass panic, but where there's smoke there's fire. The wolf at the door always has his "version" of the story. Better to be cautious and build a strong defense then be left with nothing but a flimsy one and our bacon fried. |
Love the analogy!  And our pug really appreciates the reference to bacon (one of his favorite foods!)  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 - 03:47 AM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 4745
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| Spock1 wrote: | | Cat wrote: | | [ I have no doubt that he will simply lie to Obama, and if Obama falls for it, we could wind up with the same sort of situation as we did in the late 30's, when people believed that Hitler posed no real threat. |
Indeed. Great analogy and one which is dangerously close to becoming a reality. |
It's a scary thought, isn't it. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 18, 2008 - 04:23 AM
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Member
Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Posts: 10407
Location: Never you mind where I'm at! You don't need to be knowing! Snoops!
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| Cat wrote: | | angel wrote: | | ASB wrote: |
My biggest concern though is how Ahmanutjob is reported on US media compared to how he is reported on BBC and other news media such as AU. He comes over as this huge world threat on US media and just another nut job everywhere else. The biggest fear that many have is not the nut jobs but the bluster coming out of the US, I am sorry to say but that scares the hell out of me more than Ahmanutjob.
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It seems like mass panic, but where there's smoke there's fire. The wolf at the door always has his "version" of the story. Better to be cautious and build a strong defense then be left with nothing but a flimsy one and our bacon fried. |
Love the analogy! And our pug really appreciates the reference to bacon (one of his favorite foods!) |
 Pleased that you and Yoshi liked it!  I read this book to the kids when they were itty bitty. |
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