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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 26, 2007 - 09:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 7329
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| SMB wrote: | I am sort of laughing right now because years ago, we had a rector who was very old fashioned and didn't like the idea of women having too much power in the church. He made a remark using Paul's suggestion that women should be quiet.
The next Sunday, (and mind you, this is a very conservative type of church), the choir processed in. The only ones singing were the men. The women had all gotten together and put tape over their mouths. (This was also back in the Hippy movement 70s era). Needless to say, the rector never mentioned women being quiet in church again. Yea for the women!   |
Good for them! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 12:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
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Location: CA
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Again...I TOTALLY understood everything you said Cat....please try to get the original Greek and Hebrew texts...you will be so elated at the major role women played in the formation of Christianity and in Jesus' Life.
Sue, that was great... !!!!
Have you ever read Anne Rice-Christ the Lord?
Another perspective...though historically researched...still fiction, but interesting. Don't even think about previous writings by her...
WE CAN HAVE AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION WITHOUT STRIFE !!!!
Maybe because it's ONLY been women discussing |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 12:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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I will look Anne Rice up. I also have Karen Armstrong's book, The History of God. Very interesting.
I used to have a set of books (fictional) that portrayed Jesus as a small boy growing up and learning how to be a carpenter. It was fascinating.
I remember one time doing a project for school. I went to the library and told them that I wanted to find a picture of a house that would have been like the one Jesus would have grown up in. The librarian brought out all of these books on cathedrals, churches, and monestaries. I rolled my eyes and said, "No, I mean a house that Jesus grew up in." We finally found a photo of a village. The librarian said to just ignore the TV antenas and it would be close.  I think we often forget that Jesus was a child at one time and grew up like any other child. Talk about parental responsiblities.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 09:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
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Location: CA
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Because of what you said about Anne Frank...
I thought you might like to see THIS |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 03:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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| littlestar wrote: | Because of what you said about Anne Frank...
I thought you might like to see THIS |
Thank you. |
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BWW |
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Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 04:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 02, 2003
Posts: 4380
Location: Walthamstow
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I read Anne Frank's diary. This was my favourite bit...
I know, I'll burn in hell  |
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When I was a child, my dad tried to force-feed me.
After a while, my mum said, "Just use a spoon, Mike. You're not a Jedi."
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 05:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 14133
Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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| BWW wrote: | I read Anne Frank's diary. This was my favourite bit...
I know, I'll burn in hell |
Is that the Reader's Digest version? |
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satin_patriot |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 27, 2007 - 11:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Posts: 944
Location: Arlington, VA
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My dear, while I am not altogether sure that I understand your question or your quest, you may enjoy reading some of C.S. Lewis' apologetics or perhaps even some of Lee Strobel's works. (The Case for Faith, The Case for Christ, etc.-- Strobel's writings are more "modern" day, and probably easier reading. Lewis's get a little hairy, sometimes, since the English language has changed so much over the last few decades.)
There are LOTS of writings out that show scientific reasoning backing up what the Bible says. Everything from the Flood to the Resurrection have been bandied about. Basically, you either believe it or you don't, and people on both sides of the issues have "scientific" arguments to support their cases. It takes a lot more faith to NOT believe what the Bible says to be true, in my opinion, simply because there's too much compelling evidence that you have to write off to get rid of God. If there's a specific subject you'd like more information on (I'm having a hard time divining what exactly you're trying to find), please let me know, and I'll be happy to pass on some suggestions. (WARNING: anything I suggest will fall on the pro-Scriptural Authority side, because that's what I believe.)
Much love.
L~
(satinpatriot at gmail) |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 28, 2007 - 12:16 AM
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Location: Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Kahil Gibran
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Thank you for your imput Satin.
I wonder how many of us would be willing to go to the gas chambers because of our faith. I mean, what if Bin Laden ever managed to overcome the US government and then proceeded to declare anyone who is not Muslim is to be executed? (And, this is not an attack on the Muslims)
OK, I know it is a long shot, but I sometimes think we get too comfortable and think that we are invinceble. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 28, 2007 - 12:29 AM
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That reminds me of a scene in "The Others" ....when the children
were having their Bible Lesson and they discussed the denial of faith... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 28, 2007 - 12:46 AM
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| SMB wrote: | Thank you for your imput Satin.
I wonder how many of us would be willing to go to the gas chambers because of our faith. I mean, what if Bin Laden ever managed to overcome the US government and then proceeded to declare anyone who is not Muslim is to be executed? (And, this is not an attack on the Muslims)
OK, I know it is a long shot, but I sometimes think we get too comfortable and think that we are invinceble. |
I have to admit that I've had scary thoughts about that, too. Except the means of death in my scenarios is crucifixion. The symbol that we revere would be our means of execution. I've thought about that alot after reading The Stand. |
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Cuzsis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 28, 2007 - 11:36 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 4472
Location: Outer Space ;)
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| BWW wrote: | I read Anne Frank's diary. This was my favourite bit...
I know, I'll burn in hell |
Window or aisle seat? |
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Hart |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 28, 2007 - 08:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 1373
Location: England - Home of the 2003 World Champions!!
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[quote="
It bothers me sometimes when people think of other's religion in stereotypical ways. I have heard some Jewish folks say, "Don't blame us for killing your Jesus." The Jews did not kill Jesus, the Romans did for political reasons.
I think that in addition to understanding what he said given his heritage, we have to look at it in the light of the time he lived in. I always loved the fact that the first person who saw him after the resurrection, and who was the first to tell others, or "preach the gospel", was a woman. So much for those who say women have no place in the ministry.  And I am bothered by those who use some of what Paul said to demean womens place in the church. At that time, women weren't given the same teachings as men, so that often during a service they would have questions. Paul thought it disruptive if people were asking questions during the service, so he advised women to wait until later to ask the questions of their husbands. How many times have people used this to insinuate that women should keep their pie holes quiet. I think Paul would be horrified to know that his teachings were taken so out of context! " quote
You should source some suitably qualified information on the contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls, including the missing Disciples books. One of which was written by a woman disciple called Ruth (I think that was her name) who is actually now thought to have been the person Jesus might have wanted to take on his ministry. Although the "established" roman catholic church has always denied this and continues to do so.
You also need to look into the various Councils of Church meetings which took place but some of the important dates are from 304AD and 500AD. One famous one took place in Constantoble. It was at these that the form of the roman catholic church was formalised, even down to what priests could and couldn't wear, how to consolidate power and wealth within the priesthood. They decided to exclude the "missing" disciples book, remove references to Jesus' female disciples and put the anti-female spin on woman based on an interpretation of Peter's words. Given the context of the time period, there were very few communities who gave women power and most notibly horrified with the concept were the Romans !! So the mindset of those who had grown up in an enviorment which had historically fallen under the Roman Empire has to be questioned.
Good luck with the research.
Hart |
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"Life may not be the party we hoped for but while we are here, we might as well dance" Anon
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 30, 2007 - 11:24 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 4472
Location: Outer Space ;)
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| Hart wrote: | [quote="
It bothers me sometimes when people think of other's religion in stereotypical ways. I have heard some Jewish folks say, "Don't blame us for killing your Jesus." The Jews did not kill Jesus, the Romans did for political reasons.
I think that in addition to understanding what he said given his heritage, we have to look at it in the light of the time he lived in. I always loved the fact that the first person who saw him after the resurrection, and who was the first to tell others, or "preach the gospel", was a woman. So much for those who say women have no place in the ministry. And I am bothered by those who use some of what Paul said to demean womens place in the church. At that time, women weren't given the same teachings as men, so that often during a service they would have questions. Paul thought it disruptive if people were asking questions during the service, so he advised women to wait until later to ask the questions of their husbands. How many times have people used this to insinuate that women should keep their pie holes quiet. I think Paul would be horrified to know that his teachings were taken so out of context! " quote
You should source some suitably qualified information on the contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls, including the missing Disciples books. One of which was written by a woman disciple called Ruth (I think that was her name) who is actually now thought to have been the person Jesus might have wanted to take on his ministry. Although the "established" roman catholic church has always denied this and continues to do so.
You also need to look into the various Councils of Church meetings which took place but some of the important dates are from 304AD and 500AD. One famous one took place in Constantoble. It was at these that the form of the roman catholic church was formalised, even down to what priests could and couldn't wear, how to consolidate power and wealth within the priesthood. They decided to exclude the "missing" disciples book, remove references to Jesus' female disciples and put the anti-female spin on woman based on an interpretation of Peter's words. Given the context of the time period, there were very few communities who gave women power and most notibly horrified with the concept were the Romans !! So the mindset of those who had grown up in an enviorment which had historically fallen under the Roman Empire has to be questioned.
Good luck with the research.
Hart |
Fascinating Hart!
I too, have heard of the "questions asked in church disrupting the service". Indeed, I heard that the men and women sat on opposite sides of the church, and so to ask a question, one would have to shout across the room even.
It's funny to, b/c these days *everyone* is supposed to be quiet in church. Not just the gals.
In reading some of his interactions with women (Mary M. amongst others) I must say that I don't see him really playing favorites one way or the other between the sexes. Heck, what about the women at the well?! She wasn't even in the same culture group! It wouldn't surprise me at all to have women disciples, he did have a fairly large following. Much more than the 12 if I recall correctly. |
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