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morgram |
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Post subject: Friendly fire incident
 Posted: Aug 24, 2007 - 08:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 19, 2005
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3 British Soldiers Killed by U.S. Bomb KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - A bomb apparently dropped by an American fighter jet called in for air support killed three British soldiers in southern Afghanistan, officials said Friday. Two soldiers were seriously wounded.
The British unit was on patrol Thursday evening in Helmand province when it came under Taliban attack, the British Ministry of Defense said.
"During the intense engagement that ensued, close air support was called in from two U.S. F-15 aircraft to repel the enemy. One bomb was dropped and it is believed the explosion killed the three soldiers."
They were the first British soldiers killed in friendly fire in Afghanistan, although joint operations between U.S. and British forces in Iraq have been marred by "friendly fire" deaths caused by the failure of equipment and personnel in correctly identifying allies.
Britain did not identify the soldiers, from 1st Battalion, The Royal Anglian Regiment. It said an investigation was planned.
British troops have been battling militants for months in Kajaki, where repairs are taking place on a hydroelectric dam that will be able to supply close to 2 million Afghans with electricity.
"There are a handful of different reasons why this tragic incident has happened and we are not in a position at the moment and I don't think we will be for some time to find out exactly what has happened," said a spokesman for British troops in Helmand, Lt. Colonel Charlie Mayo.
Mayo said both wounded soldiers were injured seriously.
The American embassy in London said "the United States expresses its deep condolences to the families and loved ones of the soldiers who died, and we wish those who were injured a speedy recovery."
After an inquest into the death of British soldier Lance Cpl. Matty Hull, 25, killed in a friendly fire attack by two American pilots in Iraq in 2003, opposition legislators in Britain called for improvements in joint identification systems.
Britain last year threatened to end cooperation with the U.S. on the new Joint Strike Fighter jet after 10 years of development, until the Pentagon resolved concerns it was not sharing enough information about the aircraft's sensitive software with London.
Earlier this year, Britain's Defense Secretary Des Browne said that since 1990 12 British personnel had died in friendly fire incidents involving U.S. forces in Iraq, but that there had been no such deaths in Afghanistan.
U.S. fire has mistakenly killed five Canadian soldiers: One died last September when a U.S. warplane called in for air support during an anti-Taliban operation mistakenly fired on NATO troops, and four were killed in April 2002 when an American pilot dropped a 500-pound bomb near where the troops were apparently conducting a live-fire exercise, which the pilot mistook for Taliban action.
In August 2006, a bomb mistakenly dropped by coalition aircraft killed 10 Afghan police officers on a patrol in the country's southeast.
In the most famous friendly fire case of the Afghan conflict, Pat Tillman, the former NFL player who became an Army ranger, was killed in April 2004 by fellow troops near the Pakistani border.
Britain has about 7,000 troops in Afghanistan, most based around Helmand. The latest deaths bring to 73 the number of British personnel killed in the country since the U.S.-led invasion in November 2001.
Taliban insurgents in the east and south of the country have stepped up their attacks on Afghan and coalition forces over the last 18 months, seeking to overthrow the Western-backed government installed in 2001 after the ouster of the Taliban.
On Thursday, Afghan forces killed three insurgents, two of whom were Islamic militants from Chechnya, during a one-hour gunbattle in southern Zabul province, said local government head Fazal Bari. He gave no more details.
Meanwhile, U.S.-led coalition troops shot dead a suspected militant and detained 11 other people during a raid in eastern Afghanistan, the coalition said in a statement.
The militant was killed Friday while "attempting to engage coalition and Afghan forces" during a raid in Nangarhar province, the coalition statement said. Eleven other men detained will be questioned "as to their involvement in militant activities," it said.
Troops recovered weapons and ammunition during the raid, the statement said. |
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"Leave the starship commanding to Bill because he already knows how to do it better than anybody else!" -morgram
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 24, 2007 - 09:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 8400
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Anything to add?
Want to see the importance attached to this by the US media?
http://www.foxnews.com/ |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 24, 2007 - 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: 1046
Location: St. Peters, Missouri
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GC, your use of Fox News as an example is weak, at best. It is essentially the same story as that shown on MSNBC. So, stop trying to play the conservative vs. liberal media sources card.
While ANY friendly-fire accident is deeply regrettable, we don't know the circumstances at this point, so to even speculate as to the reason is disingenuous. There is also something called "the ebb and flow of a battlefield". |
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DaHjaj 'oH QaQ jaj Daq Hegh.
legh SoH Daq [Hades]
"Today is a good day to die.
See you in Hades."
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 24, 2007 - 10:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2002
Posts: 7598
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
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Ladies and Gents, HERE WE GO AGAIN!
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 24, 2007 - 10:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
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| DD_Watson_50 wrote: | GC, your use of Fox News as an example is weak, at best. It is essentially the same story as that shown on MSNBC. So, stop trying to play the conservative vs. liberal media sources card.
While ANY friendly-fire accident is deeply regrettable, we don't know the circumstances at this point, so to even speculate as to the reason is disingenuous. There is also something called "the ebb and flow of a battlefield". |
I don't see your point. you mean if one media outlet carries it then the others don't bother?
I would accept it as the "ebb and flow of a battlefield" if it wasn't such a one-way traffic. See if you could accept it so philosophically if we killed your people. In four years of war, it hasn't happened yet, whereas you've killed 12 of ours.
Anyway, it saddens and infuriates me, so I'm not going to discuss it. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 03:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 9896
Location: I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend.--Abraham Lincoln
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It could also be the lag time. For example, my husband and I used to listen to the short wave radio at night. We would get first hand news reports of what was happening overseas because it was daytime there. In the morning (our morning). The American news would just be getting started.
Now, granted, I am one of the few who do not have cable TV, so do not have access to CNN and all of the other 24/7 news channels.
I know that when Princess Diana was in the accident, I heard about it minutes after it happened through the short wave. By morning (our morning), she was dead. Most people just waking up were just getting the news. |
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Let's do it as a memorial to Joyce Mason
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 04:06 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 8167
Location: CA
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You know I've often wondered about this myself.....
Since the Revolution, but more well known, since the Civil War...
the USA has had an exorbitant amount of friendly fire cases.
Most people actually heard of it from Vietnam on. I haven't quite worked out if it is the fact that we often rush into action before being thoroughly trained with equipment...or lack of proper surveillance technique.
Maybe a Military Person would discuss...without taking offense.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 04:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 8167
Location: CA
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 07:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
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I've had a night's sleep and am less emotional about it. I too would be genuinely interested to see if anyone could explain this phenomenon. After all, it's not just your allies that you kill, it's your own people too. I'm sure the average USAF pilot is not more stupid than the average, say, RAF pilot, so why don't we hear of the RAF mistakenly killing US soldiers? Is it the training? Is it the gung-ho spirit?
This is a genuine question, please treat it as such. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 11:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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Isn't this a political topic? And didn't Paul just put the kaboosh on political topics? Then why are people posting? Isn't that disregarding what Paul said?
I'm getting pretty offended by the double standards that people seem to want applied to this site.  |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 03:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 8167
Location: CA
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OH..Sorry...I looked at it as Military History and Truth of Past Actions as per DOD government findings....
I see Politics as something different.....My BAD!!!
See?...Hard to know what is "talkable"....ANYTHING can be turned to Political or Religious...depending on perspective....
OOPPPS I did it again....  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 06:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
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Isn't there a difference between current affairs and politics? If someone had used this event to attack the reasons for us being there in the first place, then maybe.
Besides which, it should be morgram you shuold be berating, he started this thread. |
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Yes we can!
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 07:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 02, 2003
Posts: 3983
Location: Walthamstow
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I find the term 'friendly fire' a bit ironic. How can shooting at someone, friend or otherwise be friendly?
As I said in another thread, this was a tragic mistake. I'll bet the pilots involved are feeling pretty low about this. I feel terrible about it but our (and by 'our' I mean all allied troops) forces have an important, difficult job to do. At times like this support is needed not recrimination. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 09:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 12, 2005
Posts: 10561
Location: Never you mind where I'm at! You don't need to be knowing! Snoops!
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| Truly well said, BWW. A calm rational voice of wisdom. |
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morgram |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 25, 2007 - 09:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 3322
Status: Offline
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| greenchick wrote: | I've had a night's sleep and am less emotional about it. I too would be genuinely interested to see if anyone could explain this phenomenon. After all, it's not just your allies that you kill, it's your own people too. I'm sure the average USAF pilot is not more stupid than the average, say, RAF pilot, so why don't we hear of the RAF mistakenly killing US soldiers? Is it the training? Is it the gung-ho spirit?
This is a genuine question, please treat it as such. |
Obviously our pilots are seeing more aerial action then yours and I went out of my way to show you deference, greenchick, before I posted this subject. I titled this message friendly fire incident instead of oops, my original choice but then I realized that oops might have conveyed an insensitive connotation. |
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"Leave the starship commanding to Bill because he already knows how to do it better than anybody else!" -morgram
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