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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 07, 2007 - 04:35 PM
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Member
Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 8400
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That was an interesting table, Cat. Have you seen the company you keep? Not many democracies amongst them. None of the countries the US compares itself to in any other field executes its citizens.
No, it's not always to do with race, but wouldn't you agree that black people are on the whole less likely to be able to afford good counsel? Also there must be a societal element if the figures constantly reflect that black people who kill whites are punished more severely than whites who kill blacks.
Over and over again, i say that you have a higher murder rate than most of the countries without the death penalty. If it's not a deterrent what is it? revenge? I've always preferred the New Testament view on humanity myself! |
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Yes we can!
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 07, 2007 - 04:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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I find it strange that you say you find Asian cultures fascinating, and yet most of them have the death penalty. Why so harsh on the US, and so easy on the rest of the world? Why not comment on the fact that China executed its Head of Food and Drug. Do you really believe that he personally was responsible for all the safety issues? More than likely, he was merely a scapegoat. So, why no outrage? Why no outrage about the killings of Christian missionaries in China and North Korea? Why no outrage about the fact that many Muslim countries put you to death for converting to another religion?
I do understand your views on the death penalty, and I actually agree with many of them. I'm not ready to say that I am against it for the really heinous crimes such as torture and murder of a child. But, I take exception to your references that we target minorites. Your own history is as bloody as ours is for past crimes, but you generalize things that you cannot prove. No, we really don't try to eliminate minorites by killing them for crimes they didn't commit.
Why not do as everyone else has on this thread, and simply stick to facts relating to the death penalty in general, ie why you approve or disapprove, without the US comments. You keep saying you have no issues with the US, but your words say otherwise time and again. |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 07, 2007 - 04:48 PM
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Member
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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Disclaimer: Just in case anyone is concerned about the discussion between GC and myself, it's okay, no need to worry. We both enjoy a good discussion, and we seldom do each other any serious bodily harm. 
GC, I put this up as there has been some concern lately on the forum about people having disagreements. I don't get upset by our discussions, and I don't think you do either. |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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morgram |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 07, 2007 - 05:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 3320
Status: Offline
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| Making race an issue in relation to the death penalty and crime in general is ridiculous BECAUSE the crime victim isn`t going to care about the race of the perpetrator and vice versa. Is the black man or woman who has been violently accosted really going to say "Oh, that young man is black like me so lets just forget it and you let him go!"? Is the black perpetrator skulking around an inner city street corner frustrated because he sees no one but black citizens and saying to himself "Well, I`ll just have to wait here until whitey comes along and then I can get him!" concerned with the race of his impending victim? How illogical can you get? Criminals don`t gave a damn about the race of their victims anymore than victims care about the race of their victimizers. CRIME is a race-neutral occurance for cryin` out loud. |
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"Leave the starship commanding to Bill because he already knows how to do it better than anybody else!" -morgram
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 07, 2007 - 05:16 PM
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Member
Joined: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 9000
Location: "It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem."~ G.K.C
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GC (hi GC  ) thinks no differently as ANY LIVING THING that breaths air; and I mentioned this to her in the past, if someone took the life of her child wouldn’t she want that person died…
The problem with this topic and others similar is that we all have ‘different’ emotions, prejudice in some ways and greedy! If we were Vulcan, logic would dictate over theology.
Years of theology seemed to fail for the most; is the world’s owners manual (bible) outdated?
In closing, topics as this can be stimulating for some and/or amusing but for me, years and years and years, going over the same path has exhausted me…
Time to post more pics for KC  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 07, 2007 - 07:59 PM
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Member
Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 8400
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| Cat wrote: | Disclaimer: Just in case anyone is concerned about the discussion between GC and myself, it's okay, no need to worry. We both enjoy a good discussion, and we seldom do each other any serious bodily harm.
GC, I put this up as there has been some concern lately on the forum about people having disagreements. I don't get upset by our discussions, and I don't think you do either. |
Appreciate why you have written this and I totally agree! We both enjoy a good ding dong without having to resort to name calling or unpleasantness....yet, just you watch it though...
Why don't I address the barbarities in China? I should, I know, but this isn't a predominantly Chinese BBS. It wasn't a Chinese person who said that the civilised world needs capital punishment. Most of the countries that execute people are not democracies and have questionable civil rights issues. Yes, I find many of the countries we visited fascinating, but whether I would want to be a citizen, I'm not sure. Surely America would rather align itself with other liberal democracies?
I don't think it's a contentious statement to say that more black people get executed than whites, certainly as a proportion of the population. I'm sure it's a question of economic status rather than the deliberate targeting of black people.
We had that problem with Irish people. That guy wouldn't have been free to marry a Kennedy if we'd had the death penalty in the Seventies.
Anyway, just popped in, early night as I've got to get up at 3.15A.M.!! to fetch Will from his flight from Beijing! |
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Yes we can!
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 09, 2007 - 02:15 AM
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Member
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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| greenchick wrote: | | Cat wrote: | Disclaimer: Just in case anyone is concerned about the discussion between GC and myself, it's okay, no need to worry. We both enjoy a good discussion, and we seldom do each other any serious bodily harm.
GC, I put this up as there has been some concern lately on the forum about people having disagreements. I don't get upset by our discussions, and I don't think you do either. |
Appreciate why you have written this and I totally agree! We both enjoy a good ding dong without having to resort to name calling or unpleasantness....yet, just you watch it though...
Why don't I address the barbarities in China? I should, I know, but this isn't a predominantly Chinese BBS. It wasn't a Chinese person who said that the civilised world needs capital punishment. Most of the countries that execute people are not democracies and have questionable civil rights issues. Yes, I find many of the countries we visited fascinating, but whether I would want to be a citizen, I'm not sure. Surely America would rather align itself with other liberal democracies?
I don't think it's a contentious statement to say that more black people get executed than whites, certainly as a proportion of the population. I'm sure it's a question of economic status rather than the deliberate targeting of black people.
We had that problem with Irish people. That guy wouldn't have been free to marry a Kennedy if we'd had the death penalty in the Seventies.
Anyway, just popped in, early night as I've got to get up at 3.15A.M.!! to fetch Will from his flight from Beijing! |
I hope that Will made it home safe and sound?
How was his trip? I bet he had a fantastic time. |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 09, 2007 - 08:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 8400
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He had an amazing trip thanks! I never would have believed he could have sorted out the things he did and met the people he did! He left a shy 18 year old and has come back with such confidence and vigour!
He said Beijing was fascinating but he worries about the pollution as far as the Olympics are concerned. He didn't see a blue sky the whole time he was there and temperatures in the thirties.
He went to Tiannemen square, the Forbidden City and all the tourist places as well as having intensive Chinese lessons. He was supposed to be going to stay with his Chinese friend but the guy let him down, so I was really worried about him going out there on his own but he coped brilliantly and made lots of friends. He has to fly to Hong Kong on his own and spend a day there but he ended up talking to a guy high up in Nintendo and getting shown round!
He said China is so cheap, he bought a round for 10 people and it cost the same as one pint in Britain! |
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Yes we can!
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 09, 2007 - 03:10 PM
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Member
Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 5199
Location: standing here shaking my head in disbelief....
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Wow, what an incredible adventure. Good for him. It's so great to see our kids have these experiences which will leave a lifetime memory.
My son, Alex, really wants to visit Japan when he graduates. I'm glad he wants to go, I think it will be a great experience. I'd love a chance to go myself. The one place I'd really love to see is Scotland. I can't even say why, I've just always wanted to go. |
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When you try to make others look small, you only show how truly tiny your own spirit is.
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 09, 2007 - 06:09 PM
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Member
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: 1046
Location: St. Peters, Missouri
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| greenchick wrote: | | He had an amazing trip thanks! I never would have believed he could have sorted out the things he did and met the people he did! He left a shy 18 year old and has come back with such confidence and vigour!! |
He came back a Conservative?
| greenchick wrote: | He said Beijing was fascinating but he worries about the pollution as far as the Olympics are concerned. He didn't see a blue sky the whole time he was there and temperatures in the thirties.
He went to Tiannemen square, the Forbidden City and all the tourist places as well as having intensive Chinese lessons. He was supposed to be going to stay with his Chinese friend but the guy let him down, so I was really worried about him going out there on his own but he coped brilliantly and made lots of friends. He has to fly to Hong Kong on his own and spend a day there but he ended up talking to a guy high up in Nintendo and getting shown round!
He said China is so cheap, he bought a round for 10 people and it cost the same as one pint in Britain! |
He's become quite the world traveler, GC. Glad he's back home safe. If he ever makes it to my part of the world here in Missouri I would be more than happy to share a pint or two with him......... on me, of course.  |
_________________
DaHjaj 'oH QaQ jaj Daq Hegh.
legh SoH Daq [Hades]
"Today is a good day to die.
See you in Hades."
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 09, 2007 - 07:06 PM
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Member
Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 8400
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| What a nice thing to say! You'd probably get on, he really isn't as awkward a cuss as his ma! |
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Yes we can!
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 09, 2007 - 10:09 PM
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Member
Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: 1046
Location: St. Peters, Missouri
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Contrary to prior perceptions I can be civilized. 
And wasn't it Mr. Spock who once said, "It is easier for civilized man to act like a barbarian, than for a barbarian to act like civilized man"? |
_________________
DaHjaj 'oH QaQ jaj Daq Hegh.
legh SoH Daq [Hades]
"Today is a good day to die.
See you in Hades."
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