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Old William Shatner Main Discussion - Whale kills trainer as horrified spectators watch

SMB - Feb 25, 2010 - 03:24 AM
Post subject: Whale kills trainer as horrified spectators watch

ORLANDO, Fla.— A SeaWorld killer whale snatched a trainer off a poolside platform in its jaws Wednesday and thrashed the woman around underwater, killing her in front of a horrified audience. It marked the third time the animal had been involved in a human death.

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr ... d_by_whale

Sad event

Gornman - Feb 25, 2010 - 04:32 AM
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Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

ASB - Feb 25, 2010 - 09:48 AM
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Third Time, I wonder what they taste like, sounds like Sushi to me

Johnny_Turbo - Feb 25, 2010 - 01:10 PM
Post subject: Having a Whale of a Time

Okay, what's with the cops saying the trainer slipped and fell into the pool? The eyewitnesses all reported a very different story. The cop report sounds like a mafia excuse to me.

Maybe they should release the whale back into the ocean. "Here ya go, kid! Have a whale of a time!"

Debb - Feb 25, 2010 - 03:09 PM
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The whale doth protest his captivity in the only manner available to him.

SMB - Feb 25, 2010 - 03:32 PM
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I have only been to Sea World a few times, but twice, I witnessed some problems. I figured that it would only be a matter of time before someone was killed.

One time there was an act where Shamu went around the pool with a girl who had her leg in his mouth. Things went good until Shamu didn't obey the command to let her go. It was several minutes before Shamu finally let go. The girl was not seriously hurt but was angry. She was taken back stage, but a few minutes later, I saw her coming out with what looked like a large knife. She was angry and stomping toward the pool. It took several people to subdue her. I know they took that act out of the show. They also changed the suits from the different colors to what the performer now wear (black and white like the whale).

Another time, a male performer was riding Shamu. The whale flipped his tail in a certain way which sent the man flying through the air and he landed on the deck. The show was stopped short. Someone commented that Mamu was close by and Shamu had other things on his mind besides performing. It wasn't too long after that that Sea World announced that Mamu was pregnant.

SMB - Feb 25, 2010 - 03:36 PM
Post subject:

Gornman wrote:

Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

I wonder is male whales are similar to male elephants. I understand that the circus uses mainly female elephants in performances because they are easier to handle. The males tend to get too aggressive.

I wonder if male whales may be more aggressive than female whales.

Catt - Feb 25, 2010 - 04:04 PM
Post subject:

Gornman wrote:

Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

Exactly! We expect these animals to behave like humans, or at least trained pets. They're neither.

What is sad to me is that often the animals are punished or euthanized for behaving exactly as they should. People just suck.

morgram - Feb 25, 2010 - 04:16 PM
Post subject:

Gornman wrote:

Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

It's this left-wing mindset that causes supposedly intelligent human beings to culpably forget that wild animals are wild animals. Dumb.

morgram - Feb 25, 2010 - 04:35 PM
Post subject:

morgram wrote:

Gornman wrote:

Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

It's this left-wing mindset that causes supposedly intelligent human beings to culpably forget that wild animals are wild animals. Dumb.

Lets just splash and frolic with our aquatic mammalian friends and throw all reason and cautious inhibitions to the wind. That kind of fundamental irrationality eventually backfires with obviously tragic results...and it should cause some people to reexamine their own conclusions about humans so cavalierly putting themselves in great physical jeopardy so willfully with extremely dangerous large animals.

Debb - Feb 25, 2010 - 05:13 PM
Post subject:

qualify or quantify that statement.

morgram wrote:

Gornman wrote:

Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

It's this left-wing mindset that causes supposedly intelligent human beings to culpably forget that wild animals are wild animals. Dumb.

morgram - Feb 25, 2010 - 06:14 PM
Post subject:

Debb wrote:

qualify or quantify that statement.

morgram wrote:

Gornman wrote:

Truly sad....

IMO you can NEVER forget, these ARE wild animals...

You can use them just so much, and if you forget the "wild"
part, you are going to lose Idea

It's this left-wing mindset that causes supposedly intelligent human beings to culpably forget that wild animals are wild animals. Dumb.

This touchy-feely attitude towards wild animals certainly wasn't born of any conservative mindset. Twisted Evil

morgram - Feb 25, 2010 - 06:21 PM
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Here's an example of where I coming from...in 1975 the alligator was an endangered species so we let up on slaughtering them and allowed the population to increase...and now we have human beings especially children being routinely attacked by gators in southern states like Florida. The price for saving the alligator from extinction now places human safety in jeopardy That is fundamentally a bad bargain because in the final analysis you cannot equate animals with people.

Catt - Feb 25, 2010 - 06:37 PM
Post subject:

morgram wrote:

you cannot equate animals with people.

I totally agree. Animals are much better than people......... Wink

We have a few kids in our neighborhood that would work for gator food if Florida runs short. Shocked

Nothing around here will eat them. I know. We've tried. Embarassed

SMB - Feb 25, 2010 - 07:37 PM
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Follow up story:

ORLANDO - Trainers will continue to work with a killer whale that grabbed one of their colleagues and dragged her underwater, killing her, but SeaWorld said Thursday it is reviewing its procedures.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/feb/25 ... -breaking/

Eviva - Feb 25, 2010 - 08:29 PM
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A wilde animal - so a domestic one - it's not our toy neither a clown for our amusement! We so often forget about it. The circusses, never mind how we name them, Barnum's Circuss or Sea World, is not a place for a wild animal. That tragedy is a proof.<br>

kstahmer - Feb 25, 2010 - 10:08 PM
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morgram wrote:

...
you cannot equate animals with people.

Sure you can.

People, human beings, Eukarya-Animalia-Chordata-Vertebrata-Mammalia-Primate-Homindae-Homo-Homo sapiens are animals.

Just like cats, dogs, squirrels and killer whales are animals.

The Last Universal Ancestor (LUA) lived on Earth 3.5 - 3.8 billion years ago, sometime during the Paleoarchean Era. It gave rise to the following phylogenetic tree:

morgram, notice that you, I, and fungi are Eukaryota. That means you, I, and fungi have a common ancestor; whence, we're all related.

So the next time you sprinkle antifungal medication to obliterate your pesky athlete's foot, don't forget to say:

"Hasta la vista, distant relative!"

vampyregirl - Feb 25, 2010 - 10:57 PM
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I sees it this way:

Killer Whale: 3

Humans: ????

How many killer whales have been "extinguished" due to humans??

It's revenge for that. Plain and simple!! Wink

littlestar - Feb 25, 2010 - 11:16 PM
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The Human Animal has forgotten HOW to communicate with his brethren and forget that they do NOT follow the same clocks and schedules as the hairless apes choose to follow. It is HUMAN error in this Tragedy...

This Whale needs to be retired....period

Gornman - Feb 26, 2010 - 12:25 AM
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Tilikum had a rap sheet.

FREE TILIKUM!!!

morgram - Feb 26, 2010 - 12:36 AM
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kstahmer wrote:

morgram wrote:

...
you cannot equate animals with people.

Problem is I do not believe in the evolutionary theory. Yep. Just mark me down as yet another pro-creation religious zealot. Very Happy

kstahmer - Feb 26, 2010 - 01:20 AM
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littlestar wrote:

Agreed...

But Tilikum's retirement is problematic.

Why? Here's why:

"SeaWorld's only concern is profits; animal welfare is not their priority."
__________

"Money makes the world go around,
The world go around,
The world go around,
Money makes the world go around,
Of that we can be sure.
Pffft on being poor."

-- Liza Minnelli, Joel Grey (Cabaret, Money)

SMB - Feb 26, 2010 - 03:36 AM
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Underneath our fascade of designer clothing, fast cars, techno-gadgets, we are all animals pure and simple.

I am living proof. One time, I thought our car was going over the side of a mountain. I let out a sound that was pure animal, not recognizably human. Since then, I knew the truth about being a human animal.

kstahmer - Feb 26, 2010 - 04:29 PM
Post subject:

morgram wrote:

...

Problem is I do not believe in the evolutionary theory. Yep. Just mark me down as yet another pro-creation religious zealot. Very Happy

littlestar wrote:

"Humans don't have dominion over animals. We are animals. We're the fifth ape."

-- Richard Dawkins, The Fifth Ape

"Frightful and painfully and disagreeably human"

-- Queen Victoria (her unsettled reaction upon first seeing an orangutan named Jenny at the London Zoo in 1842)

morgram - Feb 26, 2010 - 05:25 PM
Post subject:

kstahmer wrote:

morgram wrote:

...

Problem is I do not believe in the evolutionary theory. Yep. Just mark me down as yet another pro-creation religious zealot. Very Happy

littlestar wrote:

I do not concern myself with the ramblings of supremely self-important and Godless a-holes. Smile

jena_fuller - Feb 26, 2010 - 08:03 PM
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My boyfriend used to do sound for Sea World and he said at night after hours, the whales start screaming and crying and it is obvious they're miserable and know they're alone and are upset about it. Some of them also become suicidal and bash themselves into the walls of their tanks. the corporations who own those parks try to swear the employees to secrecy about that kind of thing. But if you have a conscience, or a soul, you gotta want that to stop. I'd give anything if some investigative reporters got in and documented what their existences are really like.

not that the oceans are any safer for them, unfortunately. but they are social animals and forced to solitary confinement and highly intelligent=not a healthy combination. I don't frequent those places.

kstahmer - Feb 26, 2010 - 10:49 PM
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Dawn Brancheau was a professional who loved, and sincerely believed she understood, killer whales.

She took chances - crowd pleasing, SeaWorld encouraged chances - which cost her, her life:

kstahmer - Feb 26, 2010 - 11:05 PM
Post subject:

Hi jena_fuller,

Like your sig:

scientia non habet inimicvm nisi ignorantem

(science has no enemy but ignorance)

so apropos to this thread.

jena_fuller - Feb 26, 2010 - 11:55 PM
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Hey isn't that the truth. Rolling Eyes

thanks

kstahmer - Feb 27, 2010 - 12:51 AM
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littlestar wrote:

...

This Whale needs to be retired....period

Before it was problematic, now it definite:

No Tillikum retirement.

Plus SeaWorld is blaming the victim.

SeaWorld: Don't Screw With Us.

Gornman - Feb 27, 2010 - 02:08 AM
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The trainer was dragged into the water Wednesday by Tilikum. The medical examiner says she likely died of traumatic injuries and drowning.

Atchison says Tilikum will remain an "active, contributing member of the team" at SeaWorld.

Atchison says whale shows will resume Saturday. He says he's not sure how long it will be before trainers are allowed to get back in the water with the animals.

Tilikum is the only killer whale in the SeaWorld chain that the park has special handling rules for, Atchison said. The 22-foot, 12,000-pound male was involved in two earlier deaths at SeaWorld and a park in British Columbia.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587498,00.html

Special handling rules..... Shocked

I see this pretty clearly. The bean-counters have told the Sea World
CEO that it's OK to continue the $how. It doesn't happen often enough
to think of killing our revenue....

I think this guy is setting himself up for a HUGE fall/fail. I think
it's simply a matter of time...

kstahmer - Feb 27, 2010 - 04:08 AM
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I think SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment President Jim Atchison will take a fall as well.

The trouble is:

Not certain if I believe this because he actually takes a fall, or, because I want him to take a fall. There are plenty of things we want, but never get.

Believe the key is civil - not criminal - litigation. The goal is not to win the cases, but to win public opinion.

Atchison's success is directly proportional to gate receipts. As long as the public shows up, he's right as rain.