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Old William Shatner Main Discussion - How bad is the Economy?

windslipper - Jun 19, 2009 - 04:35 PM
Post subject: How bad is the Economy?

A man in Oklahoma City said he was attacked for his bologna and cheese sandwich. Police say 24-year-old Roger Hamilton told them he was sitting on a bus station bench Wednesday, about to put mayonnaise on his sandwich, when another man began staring at him.

Hamilton told police that the man then punched him in the mouth and grabbed his sandwich and left.

Police said Hamilton has a swollen lip and his face was covered in blood. The police report listed the value of the sandwich at 76 cents.

Police have not found the attacker.

...and we thought we had it bad!

D
Twisted Evil

Debb - Jun 19, 2009 - 04:49 PM
Post subject: Re: How bad is the Economy?

desperate circumstances lead to desperate acts.

However, I think the recession has bottomed out and I see signs of recovery.

windslipper wrote:

SMB - Jun 19, 2009 - 04:54 PM
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I have known some people to deliberately get into fist fights just so they can be taken to jail where they know they will get fed.

windslipper - Jun 19, 2009 - 05:29 PM
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My guess is that we all should be thankful for what we have instead of what we have not........

D
Twisted Evil

rdb - Jun 19, 2009 - 05:35 PM
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Sadly, that sort of hunger is fairly common in this country.

People who are homeless may go for a couple of days a week without food. Unless they are lucky, they may only get one meal a day at that.

One thing that I've seen in some areas and that I strongly advocate is a coordinated effort to help those people. In some cases, the groups that help people who are homeless will all provide food on essentially the same days- so that the person has to choose where they will go and miss out on others.

People who see someone who is homeless shouldn't be disgusted- they should be humbled and thankful, because almost everyone is only a few paychecks away from homelessness.

windslipper - Jun 19, 2009 - 05:44 PM
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rdb wrote:

Well Said, Bob!

Star Trek covered this subject with City on the Edge of Forever... Way back in the 60s....

One of my favorite Bible quotes is:
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Bringing Food to the Homeless is kinda' like that...

Dan
Twisted Evil

littlestar - Jun 19, 2009 - 05:55 PM
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I have this weird routine I do....I often go to Yardsales where there are clothes for 25 cents to a Dollar ( For a Ski or leather jacket)....I buy stuff and then I go around and gift them with clothes, blankets, tarps, rope, socks, shoes, and FIRST AID KIT, plus toiletries from when I used to travel allot...they share them with others.... I don't eat junk food anymore, but if I go in with someone else..I buy it and give it to someone hanging outside.
( they tend to congregate around Carl's Jr for some reason)

I like to share...you'd think I was born in the depression the way I hang onto stuff....ask Di...I had lingerie that was 3 sizes too small for me,since I grew a big azz, but new and useful for the girls Wink

CaptJTK - Jun 19, 2009 - 08:46 PM
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littlestar wrote:

I like to share...you'd think I was born in the depression the way I hang onto stuff....ask Di...I had lingerie that was 3 sizes too small for me,since I grew a big azz, but new and useful for the girls Wink

I'm in the same mindset, except I don't hang onto stuff. I just don't buy it. If I'm out and I see something, the first question that comes to mind is "do I really NEED that"? If the answer is no, I don't get it. I've taught the kids to think that way also, and decide what's really important and what's not. I guess I'm just cheap, right?

There is one thing that I hang onto, cars. My car is 17 years old, still runs good, looks good, so why bother with a car payment. And the price of a new Mercedes??? Shocked

Forgettaboutit.

rdb - Jun 19, 2009 - 08:47 PM
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Littlestar, you sound so much like us. We can't afford to buy things to give to other people, but we DO help where we can- and sharing is FAR more fun than not.

When I encounter people who are about to throw (good useful) things away- I suggest that they take them to the nearest homeless shelter, or to an organization that helps poor people. If those organizations can't use them directly, they take the stuff somewhere else where it would be used.

Several truckloads worth of stuff have gone to the shelters that would otherwise have gone into the trash.

rdb - Jun 19, 2009 - 08:52 PM
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CaptainJTK- one of our cars is 35 years old (but we don't drive it because it guzzles gas), the other is nearly 20. I don't much like getting rid of cars either.

However, the 20 year old car (the newer one) has over 200,000 miles on it- and it's too tired for the routine I have to put it through. So I hope to someday sell the Tbird and get something fairly new- and let the Escort (the newer car) retire to local runs (such as the store) only.

CaptJTK - Jun 19, 2009 - 09:03 PM
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My mercedes has 177,000 on it, and terrible mpg. That's why the bike comes in handy. 50 - 60 mpg, it's a no brainer, as long as the weather cooperates.

rdb, any idea where I could donate some old bicycles? They need a little work but I'm sure there's some kids somewhere that would appreciate having their own ride. I just need to think of somewhere where they would fix them up. I would but I just don't have the time. Ideas?

rdb - Jun 19, 2009 - 11:08 PM
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I remember something about an organization that takes bikes and gets them to kids.

If you don't mind telling me what town/city you live in, I could do some checking. I wouldn't just give those to any organization that helps the poor- some of them take the better stuff and sell it for a profit (which doesn't usually trickle down to the people they're supposed to be helping).

littlestar - Jun 19, 2009 - 11:23 PM
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That's true...I've tested it...and get this..if say, accidentally, a box of things you weren't getting rid of, should happen to end up in the Salvation Army Pick up and you go there to retrieve it...THEY TRY TO SELL IT TO YOU!!!
I know , because it happened to an Elder Lady and I had to SCREAM at the Mgr. to give her things back !!!

I like to give directly...that way I know it makes it ....

How about getting some help to fix up those bikes, Steve...from one of the neighbors with a kind heart...or even a really smart and mechanical teen...
and then find out from a local organization who they are collecting names of for next Xmas and then you draw their names and HO HO HO..there ya go !!!

daisydownunder - Jun 20, 2009 - 01:20 AM
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CaptJTK wrote:

littlestar wrote:

Forgettaboutit.

I have always done this . It is a great disipline. The only one of my kids that didnt follow my teaching, was a see it, want it, buy it. and now she is in terrible financial trouble, IN the US.

Not Cheap at all. just very wise:)

Daisy Smile

Debb - Jun 20, 2009 - 01:28 AM
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We have a chain of stores called Village de Valeur (Value Village) that my daughter Hannah and I frequent. Here, we search for designer "pieces" that are under $10. Items of clothing that are in perfectly good shape but the original owner may have outgrown (literally...). We are often lucky on account she's a size 4 and I'm a 12. Sizes that aren't very popular. Sometimes we find vintage pieces that add a timeless quality to an outfit.

I recently found a blazer by Jones of NY in chocolate brown wool/silk blend which I know was over $200 in the department stores for $8. I get compliments on it each time I've worn it.

CaptJTK - Jun 20, 2009 - 03:07 AM
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Quote:

That's too bad about your daughter Daisy, and thank you for the compliment.

My oldest was getting like that, so I forced her to get a job a few months back and start paying for her own stuff. I think it's working. Now when she goes shopping, she calculates how many hours of work it takes to pay for something, and I've noticed the overindulging has stopped.

For me, there's 2 things I spend money on, music (CD's) and lessons. Every other week when I get paid, I buy myself a few new CD's. Our Barnes & Noble has great blues/jazz/cajun section, and that's a passion. When I really want to go overboard I go into NYC to J&R Music world, three stories of every kind of music. That's only once or twice a year.

I also pay my piano teacher, but that's a must. The piano is how I unwind.

My dream job (someday when I retire) is to be that old guy that plays piano in the lobby of the hotel bar..... Laughing

CaptJTK - Jun 20, 2009 - 03:10 AM
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rdb wrote:

If you wouldn't mind doing that, it would be great.
I live in the Mount Tabor/Denville area, Morris County, NJ.
Thanks!

SMB - Jun 20, 2009 - 03:45 AM
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As a rule, I make most of my clothes. I do have a few store outfits that were B'day or Christmas gifts.

I have never been too keen on watching the latest fashions. I figure those designers don't know me from Adam (or perhaps I should say Eve). Why would I want to wear something with their name on the label? Plus they probably wouldn't give me the time of day. I just figure they are after someone else's money, not mine.

shatrules - Jun 20, 2009 - 06:27 PM
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I remember as a child,my late mother would buy me clothes and toys that I wanted only for certain occasions such as holiday gifts and birthdays.All through my teens,I was still small(not skinny small) and my sister would give me her clothes that she doesn't use anymore,and my mother would bring clothes that rich people(whom she'd worked for so we can get a green card in NJ) would pass over.I would wear them to school,to church or wherever with pride.They were good,some of them expensive(from those same rich folks)and it was a style that no one in school had.But I was not making a fashion statement,mind you,and I was grateful.As a dual-citizen adult,I am now able to shop for my own clothes:when I was working and right now,when I'm not.I buy what I needed,and that includes food.Although it is rough most of time,I reached my state of contentment.You live and learn and I agree with you,guys about being thankful.Peace and God bless America! Smile

CaptJTK - Jun 20, 2009 - 09:15 PM
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What country are you from Shatrules?

shatrules - Jun 20, 2009 - 10:20 PM
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Trinidad

CaptJTK wrote:

What country are you from Shatrules?

daisydownunder - Jun 21, 2009 - 01:17 AM
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CaptJTK wrote:

Quote:

From what I read in here you seem to have great kids as I said. and these days it is so tough being a parent. so many temptations out there.

You know I have always done that. How many hours did my son and daughter in law have to work. and "often" pulled up my grand children with this. Like! you do realise your Mum has to work X number of days just for whatever:) Kind of went over their heads. But when they got jobs at Woolworth they began to manage money well. so in the end the teaching works, just hang in there . And now my two grand kids are in The Navy and The air Force.

Glad you found the washing Smile

BTW I can just see you at that piano, in the future:)

Daisy Smile

windslipper - Jun 21, 2009 - 03:10 AM
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IBM has layed off hundreds here in New York of late... and there are no jobs to replace their incomes....
Sad state of affairs... to be sure.... Crying or Very sad

Cat - Jun 21, 2009 - 03:38 AM
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windslipper wrote:

IBM has layed off hundreds here in New York of late... and there are no jobs to replace their incomes....
Sad state of affairs... to be sure.... Crying or Very sad

It's the same here. I keep hearing about how the economy is turning around, but every time I turn on the news, another company is going down. There are dozens of empty buildings indicating lost jobs, just in our area. Our clients and customers are going under. I've never seen anything like this. Sad

vampyregirl - Jun 22, 2009 - 05:13 AM
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Cat wrote:

windslipper wrote:

IBM has layed off hundreds here in New York of late... and there are no jobs to replace their incomes....
Sad state of affairs... to be sure.... Crying or Very sad

Same in this area. We'vs been mostly auto manufacturing for the last several decades. Now, everyone is getting laid-off (temporary and "permanent"). My uncle worked for the local Chevy plant for 23 yrs. He is now one of the "until further notice" layoffs. He gets unemployment, but is further in debt now than he ever was. (Of course, paying for everything for your adult children doesn't help either--but they finally stopped doing that)

windslipper - Jun 22, 2009 - 04:55 PM
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What we need is a bunch of Edith Keelers...

SMB - Jun 22, 2009 - 08:07 PM
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I have been researching the Great Depression and all the things people did to stretch every dollar they had. As careful as I am with a budget, I can already see some areas that could be improved.

windslipper - Jun 23, 2009 - 06:16 PM
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We are all forced to "Tighten our belts."

As long as we have our health and our Loved ones we shall persevere!

D
Twisted Evil

Stephanie - Jun 24, 2009 - 03:13 AM
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My husband's been unemployed since mid-February, and I haven't been able to work - for health reasons - for the last 3 years.

We now live on about a quarter of what our income was in January. If it weren't for food banks and pantries, and the Grace of God, and the kindness of other people, we'd be starved dead already.

WE were lucky. How many other people do you know who have enough money put away to cover ALL of their living expenses for 8 weeks before even Unemployment was granted and paid? How many people can live for 8 weeks on ZERO income ... and not lose car, home, etc? We spent most of the rest of what we had invested (that hadn't been lost in the bad economy during 2008) either paying off or divesting ourselves of bills and expenses that we could. And still -- hubby and I don't get surgery when he or I need it, now... nor meds... nor do our beloved critters always get their meds.

The week before last, I had to make a choice: Food for us for a few days or daily medication for my oldest dog (who's 15+ years old and deserves a comfortable old age)?
My dog got his medication. We ate a few cans of dog food, which we replaced as soon as we had some money. I've been living without my Tramadol for 11 days now. If I don't find some way to get some pain relief soon... well, never mind. Nobody likes to hear someone else's whining.

The economy is not yet getting any better... not here in the metropolitan-NYC area, anyhow.

windslipper - Jun 24, 2009 - 08:27 PM
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Here in upstate NY the economy continues to worsen every day...
Families and Children without food is becoming a reality for many...and welfare etc. is getting harder and harder to qualify for....
One can only imagine what the future may bring...

Dan

rdb - Jun 24, 2009 - 09:56 PM
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While the top .5% of the country are getting richer by the minute...

I think it's excessive when the top dog of a company makes between 400 and 1000 TIMES the lowest paid (or in some cases the average paid) person's income. They lay off several of the lowest paid people and think they're cutting corners. They cut people's pay- and reduce the top person's pay by a pittance (if they don't find some way to raise it).

Oh, and the taxes don't go down- or go up for everyone below the median income.

(Oh, that's right- they're user fees and so on - not taxes. Riiighht!!!)

Meanwhile all those jobs that we're needing are being shipped to places where they can convince the locals to work for pennies a day in sweathouse conditions without any benefits.

And when we complain and talk about "living wages", they say they can't make a profit! (RIGHT- many countries around the world have a living wage and their owners don't charge more- and are still making a profit!)

CaptJTK - Jun 24, 2009 - 11:19 PM
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windslipper wrote:

Jersey's not faring much better. I just noticed on my way home tonight how many empty houses there are in my neighborhood. For sale signs everywhere.

You gotta wonder where those people went......
Sad state of affairs.

Nostromo - Jun 24, 2009 - 11:57 PM
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CITIGROUP which received $45 BILLION U.S. tax payer dollars to keep it from collapsing, is going to raise base salaries for traders and fund managers by as much as 50%, to compensate for the loss of performance bonuses. Is anyone feeling buyers remorse yet?

N

Stephanie - Jun 25, 2009 - 12:31 AM
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CaptJTK wrote:

windslipper wrote:

Here in upstate NY the economy continues to worsen every day... Families and Children without food is becoming a reality for many...and welfare etc. is getting harder and harder to qualify for.... One can only imagine what the future may bring... Dan

Jersey's not faring much better. I just noticed on my way home tonight how many empty houses there are in my neighborhood. For sale signs everywhere. You gotta wonder where those people went......
Sad state of affairs.

It sure isn't, CaptJTK. I'm in Essex county. What part of Jersey are you from?
(no need to get too personal if you're uncomfortable to say exactly - county is fine... or even just "north", "central", "south", "down the shore", etc)

Our county has one of the highest property taxe rates in the nation, I just heard recently. We're becoming a ghost town here... less than 15 minutes into midtown Manhattan on the Midtown Direct train - but so many empty houses that it's starting to noticeably become a ghost town here. New Yorkers moved here for the 'better bargain' on real estate, but now that they've lost their jobs in NYC and there aren't any jobs here either - they're losing their homes... which are remaining vacant long enough for desperate people to break into them at night and strip them of ALL electrical wiring and plumbing copper and fixtures and window panes, and once that happens no one will buy and the town is just waiting for many to fall down enough to be demolished. It's terrifying to watch. What's my house gonna be worth in another 6 months, or a year, when it's one of the only few left that's inhabited?

A 2-sq-mile city with a population of nearly 40,000 ..... and it's fast becoming a Wasteland. Soon, we're beginning to fear, it'll be just like the parts of Newark that never were rebuilt after the 1967 riots -- just open fields in the middle of one of the larges urban areas in our nation!

dlvlady44 - Jun 25, 2009 - 01:47 AM
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I hate to say it - but wasn't all that stimulus money supposed to make everything wonderful again? No jobs out here in Vegas either. I am only working because I have been at the same hotel for 10 years - seniority. Nevada has the highest forclosure rate in the country also I heard. Not good at all. I am sorry for all that are hurting over this. Hope things start to turn around soon.

Cat - Jun 25, 2009 - 02:13 AM
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I'd like to know where all those trillions of dollars are going. They certainly aren't going to education. They aren't going to local government. They aren't being spent around here on road improvement, or any other public projects.

I'd like to see the bank accounts of some of the special interest groups that helped elect the current administration. Perhaps a wee bit o' money somehow "mistakenly" wound up there? Shocked

CaptJTK - Jun 25, 2009 - 02:58 AM
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Hey Stephanie,

Morris County here, and yea, it's appalling. We're an hour out on the midtown direct. They even put the high-low cars on the line and there's nobody on the trains. Everyone's out of work.

My brother was out for about 6 months last year, finally found a job, got married in the first week of May this year, came back from his honeymoon and was told to clear out. He was let go.

You gotta wonder how those people up in Bergen county are fairing, in Alpine, those mansions......poor bastards.

We have something in common, besides being from Jersey.
My given name is Stephen, Steve for short. Cool

ASB - Jun 25, 2009 - 04:11 AM
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The good thing to come out of an economic downturn is all the inefficient businesses close and the efficient ones remain, once things improve the stronger businesses grow to fill the void taken up previously by the failed companies, the end result is a far stronger economy.

Unfortunatly this cycle happens to some degree every thirty years.

BTW did I mention Australia decided not to join the recession. Laughing

I really feel for you guys my sister in OK is doing it very tough, I am almost embarased to tell her we are going to Japan again next holiday.

Gornman - Jun 25, 2009 - 04:21 AM
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Here is the problem Idea

Yes, I was an Economics major Idea

The Economy runs in cycles, upswings and downturns, it's
the natural order of things...

But some adviser walks into the Oval and says

OMG MR. President, we may have some inflation or unemployment

Well, being a politican, and PREZ, he thinks he has to act. He will tweak the Fed....etc

In the end what we get, instead of a lot of small bumps in the Economy,
like is supposed to happen, is one giant bump due to all the
Government meddling
Idea

ASB - Jun 25, 2009 - 02:32 PM
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Actually this mess was caused by lack of meddling Gorman, to much attention given to the issues out of the country to notice the melt down happening at home. Sub prime was a disaster waiting to happen and boy it happened didn't it.

You have to wonder what the people in the finance positions were doing for the past 10 years.

Nothing could have stopped this recession once it started but at least world wide action seems to have prevented it becoming a depression, the US will take years to dig out of this whole, I hope you all have the means to ensure your homes and families are safe.

windslipper - Jun 25, 2009 - 05:22 PM
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Sharice Williford travels to work each day from her home in Beacon to Chester, Orange County, where is employed as a safety clerk for a trucking company.

She often stays late, waiting for a cab or bus. Once, she walked across the Newburgh-Beacon bridge at night because her bus didn’t come.

On Wednesday, Williford and 21 other Dutchess County families received their own cars from Community Solutions for Transportation and Wheels For Work, funded by the Department of Social Services through an allocation from the New York State Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance, Division of Employment and Transitional Supports.

The families followed specific guidelines and took classes on topics like safe driving and budgeting their finances before the award ceremony at the Family Partnership Center on Wednesday.

After the ceremony, the recipient claimed their cars, which were parked in roped-off lot across the street.

Read tomorrow's Journal for the full story.

Sometimes the Goverment really does help...

D
Twisted Evil

littlestar - Jun 25, 2009 - 06:01 PM
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yes...and the cars weren't selling anyway...so a WIN-WIN Very Happy

What's that old song...BARE NECESSITIES-CLICK...yeah that's it....

rdb - Jun 25, 2009 - 08:33 PM
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Some of my friends and others I've met had been forecasting the sub-prime mess long before it happened.

Deregulation was the culprit. If the rules had been left in place, the top people might not have gotten as rich, but the rest of us wouldn't be in the jam we're in as well.

Today I talked at a roundtable discussion on the medical industry and how it's failing in this country. I hope it does some good- makes some changes for the better.

Stephanie - Jun 25, 2009 - 08:42 PM
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CaptJTK wrote:

We Jerseyeans always have stuff in common with each other. Wink

lol

Steve - I almost spit my teeth out laughing when I read your oh-so-true comment about the Bergen county folks in their mansions... Hubby also agrees with you. But he says he can't bring himself to feel too sorry for them, they 'worked the Wall Street system' for all it was worth, bought homes and bought into lifestyles they couldn't really afford and now can't keep - while we in Essex, Passaic, Hudson, & Union counties toiled harder and paid higher tax rates (if for smaller properties). I guess they're SoL now.

Disclaimer: The above ^, of course, is a very broad generalization, and while it's quite demonstrably true as a whole - it does not reflect individuals.

I don't know what's going to happen to us, personally, nor to Jerseyans in general.
Essex county has one of the highest unemployment rates - 9.9% - in all 21 counties in New Jersey! (Only Passiac, Hudson, Atlantic, Cumberland, & Salem counties are higher... and not by much, just a few tenths of a percentage point.)
NJ - as a state - has an 8.9% unemployment rate... but NJ has the highest statewide unemployment rate in the entire mid-Atlantic region.

littlestar - Jun 25, 2009 - 08:59 PM
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I worry more about Stephanie,and her Family, eating Dog Food...I hope it had gravy on it....sorry, it's not funny Sad

Stephanie - Jun 26, 2009 - 12:52 AM
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littlestar wrote:

I worry more about Stephanie,and her Family, eating Dog Food...I hope it had gravy on it....sorry, it's not funny Sad

Then why did you make the gravy crack in the first place?

Do you think I'm the only person to have to resort to eating dog food?
I'm not and it's been done plenty of times in the past... and plenty of times today.
It beats going hungry entirely.

littlestar - Jun 26, 2009 - 01:06 AM
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I was trying to make light of a serious situation...and YOU are not the only one on this Board to deal with People in dire straits....

Think you could curtail your attitude a little? Confused

daisydownunder - Jun 26, 2009 - 11:54 AM
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Stephanie wrote:

littlestar wrote:

I worry more about Stephanie,and her Family, eating Dog Food...I hope it had gravy on it....sorry, it's not funny Sad

Many years ago (in the UK) when I was just 7 to ten. I had survived world war 2 but I was an invalid.,and hunger was a daily battle, we went to bed to keep warm and as we had no food it was the best way to survive, father was desperately ill from war wounds, and my mother was fragile. However thanks to Jinny Nonas. our dear neighbour, we survived, what she would do was go to the open market at the end of the day and in the bins were carrots potatoes all sorts of left over veggies that would not survive to the next day. she used to pick the best . and she had this HUGE pan that always had thick soup with legumes. at the end of the day she would give us what was left . and the next day she would do this all over again.

recently I watched Oprah and believe or not many people even some well healed were in fact doing this. Dog food BTW is sometimes animals that have TB and cancer , My daughter and daughter inlaw both worked when younger in a meat works, so be careful.

when dad got stronger he could make a meal out of scraps. mainly legumes these were always available after the war, this was an era of ration books and (thin people) people used to help each other to survive another day, until things eventually got better.

I feel for all those with hardships, believe me my friends I have been there. and hope is your only crutch

Take care . and good luck. I know several on this forum are doing it tough. as is my daughter in the US.

Daisy

Debb - Jun 26, 2009 - 05:22 PM
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humans are hard wired to survive and adapt.

Stephanie - Jun 26, 2009 - 05:58 PM
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daisydownunder wrote:

Dog food BTW is sometimes animals that have TB and cancer , My daughter and daughter inlaw both worked when younger in a meat works, so be careful.

Like I said, it beats going hungry entirely.

I can't worry about cancer or any other disease over worrying about an empty stomach. If I must choose between a completely empty stomach NOW and couple of weeks before starving dead and possibly cancer or another disease later... and that's just a 'maybe' -- I will have to choose for the immediate survival and deal with other things later. Otherwise, there will be no later.

I never thought that - at the age of 48 - I'd have been reduced to this. I grew up solidly middle class and never 'wanted' for anything. I spent most of my marriage wealthy. Now, hubby at 63 and I at 48, are facing starvation. This is unbelievable. Just totally unbelievable.

daisydownunder wrote:

I feel for all those with hardships, believe me my friends I have been there. and hope is your only crutch

Take care . and good luck. I know several on this forum are doing it tough. as is my daughter in the US.

Daisy

Oh, I'm quite aware that I'm hardly alone. Many of my immediate neighbors are in the same boat as I. We have pooled our food to make community suppers for us all that are better than what each of us would have been able to make alone. Yet, we still can't make ends meet and eat healthily.

Today I must make yet another tough choice: Do I buy my Tramadol or buy my husband's blood pressure medicine? I don't have enough to buy both. I can only have one until next Friday...
If his blood pressure rises, he could die. If I don't alleviate my chronic pain, I could make another suicide attempt, possibly, if I can't take the pain any longer. I've attempted suicide 4 times already, in the past 22 years. I'm not suicidal right now, but it's quite possible that, after a week of unmitigated pain, I will be. I'm all too aware of the potential consequences. How do I choose which med to buy?

I suppose it's gonna have to be hubby's blood pressure medicine. That's the more immediate threat, at the moment.

Debb - Jun 26, 2009 - 06:10 PM
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A good argument for social medicine.

Nostromo - Jun 26, 2009 - 06:50 PM
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Stephanie wrote:

daisydownunder wrote:

Dog food BTW is sometimes animals that have TB and cancer , My daughter and daughter inlaw both worked when younger in a meat works, so be careful.

daisydownunder wrote:

I write about this subject frequently but it's distant to me. Following this thread makes it real. Thank you for your honesty and a different perspective.

N

littlestar - Jun 26, 2009 - 07:05 PM
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Have you tried with the Pharmaceutical Companies to see if you may get a lower price or FREE Prescriptions?....Also in working with people in situations like yours...YES, I work in the field...a contact to Mental Health Services may yield help, because of the suicide threat. Have you already asked for generic types of meds, in order to get reduced price at Walgreens or WalMart ?
No churches in your area have funds for help?

See, I do care...my comment before was genuine stimulus to start discussion...and also, if I had to eat it...I would most definitely smother it in gravy...I found pasta to be cheaper than pet food...and during College I ate allot of pasta....plain, or if lucky, with butter and grated Govt Cheese.
Not good for blood pressure or fat, but it makes one feel full....

rdb - Jun 26, 2009 - 08:53 PM
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We used to eat grits and macaroni and cheese (generally with tuna, sometimes without). Macaroni and cheese generally sold for 4 packages for a a dollar- and a bag of grits was also pretty cheap. Tuna back then ran about a quarter a can. Our food budget was $20 for a week OR LESS for two people for several years. Some days we only ate grits. Our splurge was to make a pot of spaghetti and stretch it out for a few days.

It's not a healthy diet by any stretch, but it does keep you alive, and I THINK it would be even cheaper than dog food. At that time, we didn't have pets.

I was interviewed yesterday as part of a round-table discussion on health care, and I shared my bad experiences with the health care system. Part of the interview was put on one of our local radio stations. I am very much an advocate for socialized medicine, because I've experienced the evil of today's system in this country. I've had problems with kidney stones (among many other problems), and I actually had a doctor punch me in the affected kidney because we didn't have insurance or an income so we could pay the hospital bill. Indeed- after waiting in the waiting room (and in an examining room) for over six hours- the doctor's first (and obviously only) concern when he came in was about our insurance and how we'd pay.

It was my word against his, and so I never pursued it. They never believe a poor person- especially when he's going up against a doctor.

That's only just one bad situation out of dozen's I've personally witnessed.

I've been forced to beg for food from the local homeless shelter several times, we've gone without power for three months because of health issues (I can't hold down a "regular job" and it's hard to make ends meet on one income), and we've been forced to choose between medicine and other needs (such as food on the table) several times.

No, the present system is badly broken... and it's costing the country far more than if they'd spend the money to fix it.

I think there are several people on this blog who understand going through tough times.

SMB - Jun 26, 2009 - 09:16 PM
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I am just glad that our overall expenses are low. We don't have a house or car payment and we try to keep our utilities consumption down. We are able to grow some food and we can both get pretty creative in the kitchen.

When all else fails, there is Rhamon noodles for .17 a pack. Not the most nutritious, but can stretch out a small amount of meat and veggies very nicely.

What the Muskogee used to do whenever they had a gathering was to put out three baskets: one for vegetables, one for fruit, and another for bread. If someone brought meat, that was special. Everyone brought some sort of vegetable, fruit, and bread. The vegetables and meat (if available) were placed in a large pot and cooked into a stew or soup. The fruit provided dessert and the bread was usually fry bread cooked by the ladies and it was delicious.

Stephanie - Jun 26, 2009 - 09:59 PM
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Nostromo wrote:

I write about this subject frequently but it's distant to me. Following this thread makes it real. Thank you for your honesty and a different perspective.

N

I've always called a spade "a spade", not a "portable long-handled digging implement that is usually used in gardens and is often called a shovel". lol

The reality of the national situation... and the global situation, I'm sure... is that we are in the worst shape (collectively) that we have been in since the Great Depression. Now, don't think I'm crucifying you personally, Nostromo, coz I'm not -- but until all of us understand that what's going on isn't so distant as we like to think it, the necessary changes will not happen.

Most Americans are between one and three paychecks away from my situation - or worse.

We had investments to rip into, or we wouldn't have been able to last the 11 weeks before hubby's unemployment was approved. We rode out 11 weeks with ZERO income, by using up the last penny of our investments.
But that allowed me to get out of/pay off as many financial obligations as we ould... so now we don't owe anything, nothing's past due, and we pay our monthly utilities on time to keep them current.

Most Americans - after being unemployed for 22 weeks - wouldn't be in as good shape as we are!

I'm lucky in that we own our home free and clear - no mortgage. We only must pay property taxes... which is increasingly problematic, too, but it's better than having to pay a whole mortgage, monthly.
We own our own cars (his '91 Nissan Maxima and my antique Oldsmobile) and my Land Cruiser outright. Yes - they're all old, but we don't pay any monthly loan payments.
So, it could be even worse for us.

Stephanie - Jun 26, 2009 - 10:30 PM
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littlestar wrote:

My sister is a pharmacologist, littlestar.

Because I have some Rx coverage via COBRA from hubby's last job, I can't get any further assistance. Sometimes, I just don't have the $20 or $35 copay for a prescription... especially if I need to get 3 or 4 or 5 Rxes for hubby and me.

Neither of us is young, and both of us are not healthy. He's 63, and must have his anti-seizure medication three times daily and must have his blood pressure lowering medication. I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, and must have my Tramadol, my Nexium, and both Rozerim and Ambien if I want to mitigate the chronic pain, try to prevent severe reflux disease from becomming espohagus cancer and to prevent recurrance of bleeding stomach and duodenal ulcers, and sleep at least a few hours a week.

I'm out of Tramadol, out of Tisanadine, and wil be out of Rozerim after tomorrow night. Hubby's out of Depakote and out of his Bp med... I can't spell nor pronounce it. lol

Yes, I get generic on all of the above. Even the Depakote, recently... finally. Believe this or not - there is no Walmart anywhere near us. Hard to believe, but true. I live equidistant and close to a Walgreens and a CVS - each is about 10 blocks from my house. Price is the same at either, and I prefer the staff at CVS... but I do check up on prices regularly. Alsoit's better for me to go to CVS as CVS now owns the company that does my Rx insurance.

So far, no one, including my own doctors, has given much concern to whether or not I try to commit suicide again. No one much cares. I'm no just saying that in depression... I'm not actually that depressed right now, despite all of our financial woes. Oddly enough, as our financial troubles got worse, and as the decisions I've had to make get harder and more rotten - I'm feeling better and better - mood wise - than I ever have. Nothing like kicking down into survival mode to remove oneself out of severe chronic clinical depression.

My church has a small food pantry in the basement of the rectory for those in our parish who are needy; I use that, sparingly. I know that there are others in my parish, with children, who are even needier than I.

I already go to a large food pantry once monthly at a large church nearby; I get a week's worth of food, and can only go there once monthly.

I already go to a different food pantry at another local church, also once monthly (their limit) for canned and dry foods, and get abut a week's worth of food there, too.

This ^ covers about half of a month's worth of food for us... not counting cat and dog and turtle foods and meds.

At the large church pantry, this past Monday evening, someone else in line told us about yet another church locally who gives out food, too. We missed their once-a-month day to give out food this month... but we're gonna go there next month.

I believe that I'm doing everything possible. We don't qualify for food stamps, as we own our own home and hubby gets unemployment. We don't qualify for free meds from the county and/or the state, coz we have COBRA - for which we pay.

I have been to Catholic Charities, and been given cash assistance for what wasn't covered via health insurance/COBRA during my last two spine surgeries - one in April, and one in May. I have been given some business suits and clothing, also, at Catholic Charities. A few ladies in my own parish church have also given me some nice clothing. I lost weight and dropped two sizes, and had nothing appropriate to wear.

rdb - Jun 27, 2009 - 12:21 AM
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Stephanie wrote:

So far, no one, including my own doctors, has given much concern to whether or not I try to commit suicide again. No one much cares. I'm no just saying that in depression... I'm not actually that depressed right now, despite all of our financial woes.

That too has been my experience. They don't care, except that you pay their bills. All driven by the profit motive.

I'm fighting to get that changed. We need a system that takes care of EVERYONE, irregardless of their financial situation.

Cat - Jun 27, 2009 - 12:31 AM
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Stephanie, I think what LS might have been referring to is contacting the actual pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the prescription meds that you and your hubby take. That might be harder, if the meds are generic, so they don't hold a patent.

I know that the makers of Rituxan, will help with costs for those that can't afford the med, or whose insurance won't pay. Maybe the makers of some of your meds might do the same, or possibly might know of some program that would help? Might be worth a shot, anyway.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. Been there myself, and it just sucks.

Stephanie - Jun 27, 2009 - 12:33 AM
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rdb wrote:

Yes, but I don't happen to think that fully socialized medicine is the right way.

Socalized medicine doesn't work "right" in countries where it exists now. What will make that different here in the USA?

Stephanie - Jun 27, 2009 - 12:38 AM
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Cat wrote:

I'm sorry. Maybe I wasn't clear in my reply to LS.

Because my sister IS a pharmacologist, and has other pharmacological contacts in other pharmaceutical companies besides the one she works for, I have tried that already.

First - since there is a generic for each of our particular meds, no one cares about helping someone like me out. Their attitude is that I can always go to the other comany to beg for my pills; they're not responsible to me for anything. I probably would be better off if there weren't generics for my meds... but then, I wouldn't be able to afford them at all.

Second - there are too many people who can't afford their meds, right now; they can't possibly help everyone, so they help no one. At least, that's what they're telling me.

The upshot is what you said, and I've already said: It sux.

Cat - Jun 27, 2009 - 12:46 AM
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Stephanie wrote:

Cat wrote:

Thanks for explaining that.

Damn, it just seems as though there has got to be a way around this. I suppose you have already tried all the patient prescription programs, etc? I have a friend who works with the department of Health and Human Servies in New Jersey, I'd be happy to ask her if she knows of any programs if you'd like.

littlestar - Jun 27, 2009 - 01:13 AM
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Damn...you're falling right between the cracks , as many of us have....
Well,, the route I had to go for a few elders this month...was to actually call their Drs. and ask for SAMPLE PACKS of the Meds they prescribed...I told them...Either you help me out with this or your patient is going to be unable to take what you have prescribed and they will be worse to handle. I am noting everything I am saying to you, and your response, in their file. Got 3 months of Meds for them.

Cat is right...sometimes, the Pharm. Cos. will give directly to someone when they have a Life Threatening Illness, which you qualify for....and the Dr. will be happy to rewrite the script for Brand name if you were to qualify.

Seems like you are trying everything you can....wait...are there any Native American Clinics near you? By Fed Law they have to lend assistance to EVERYONE.

That's all I can think of right now...we ALL may be in this boat without a paddle before we know it. Sad

ASB - Jun 28, 2009 - 12:20 PM
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I can not believe how bad things can be in The US, this reads like your a third world country, why is it we in Australia get unemployment bennefits time unlimited, those on pensions or unemployment get free medical and medication for about $5. Our Universal medical leaves the US for dead, its unbelievable things are such as they are in a country that says its the greatest in the world, Maybe its time the US looked out for its own for a while, certainly sounds like many need help, I was staggered by the numbers of beggers in the US when I last visited, and so many looked like proud good people who had fallen on desperate times. I hope things improve real soon.

littlestar - Jun 28, 2009 - 06:00 PM
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Believe me now?...I've tried to tell you we were a Third World Country...pretending to be Powerful. If we went through all the details of so many peoples lives ...you would just sit with your jaw hanging...truly.

It like I've been alluding to...the GHOST DANCE Time...the time when all the Land will become as the Reservations have been...and many will die...the only other part to that Legacy is that "The People" are supposed to then take over Stewardship....

I hate watching this happen and had hoped I would no longer be walking here when the time came.... now, I find I am brought to tears....

rdb - Jun 28, 2009 - 06:02 PM
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ASB- I think you can understand the frustration I feel then.

I tell people what's really going on, and they scream "Traitor!" and "America- love it or leave it!" at me. They insist that we have the best system in the world, yet in some cases the very screamers don't have any health insurance themselves or they are suffering financially when they shouldn't. They blame immigrants and others (minorities) for our problems- and don't realize that they're foolishly repeating propaganda put out by the very cause of their problems- the American Elites (the VERY rich and Big Business).

I quote or refer to research in peer-reviewed journal articles, and they either denounce the social sciences or claim that it's propaganda- while quoting groups dedicated to preserving the elites in power and who have been PROVED to disseminate false information.

I tell people that America is something like 30th in the world for standard of living, and in some cases "third world" nations do better- and they say I'm lying. They've been so programmed with a knee-jerk reaction against anything that the elites deem socialism (even if it's not) that the slightest mention of things like "living wage" or "universal health care" sets off a loud and sometimes violent rant.

I almost expect that you will be attacked for saying what you just said- and I will be attacked for being in agreement with it.

littlestar - Jun 28, 2009 - 06:56 PM
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Don't know what's worse....going down in Flames, while having open-eyed knowledge of it...or going down in delusions of grandeur

rdb - Jun 28, 2009 - 06:58 PM
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greenchick - Jun 28, 2009 - 10:19 PM
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Excuse my ignorance but are you really saying that if you lose your job through no fault of your own, you then lose entitlement to health care? Surely not! Also, don't you get unemployment benefits to obviate the need to eat dog food? Sounds like the Grapes of Wrath!

littlestar - Jun 28, 2009 - 10:46 PM
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GC...Firstly, you have to consider if one HAD Health care at their Job in the first place, allot DON'T, but if so...one may get COBRA which extends those benefits for about 6 months...at a VERY HIGH RATE, which many cannot afford. After that runs out...you are SOL.

Unemployment does come in...at usually 1/2, or lower, of what you were making at your job. The rate is based on your wages backdated 1 year from your work release...then divided into quarters and used at higher rate base.

They are making it more difficult to extend those benefits....
If you are elderly , with no Insurance and dependent on MediCare...you're SOL too, as they have cut that coverage way back.

We have been telling you guys the truth....it isn't exaggerated in the least.

greenchick - Jun 28, 2009 - 11:05 PM
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SOL?

littlestar - Jun 28, 2009 - 11:36 PM
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SHITE OUTTA LUCK

greenchick - Jun 28, 2009 - 11:43 PM
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I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Stephanie - Jun 28, 2009 - 11:49 PM
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greenchick wrote:

I have no idea where you live, but it can't be the USA, if you have to ask such questions.

First: You DO realize that many, many full-time jobs don't offer health insurance, right? Many working Americans have jobs, but don't have any health insurance, and don't have access to even basic medical care.

Second: If a worker loses his/her job through no fault of his/her own, and had health insurance as a benefit, they may not get continued helath insurance coverage via COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act). Many companies are not obligated to continue coverage via COBRA if they are smaller companies, for example. Other companies fit into niche loopholes which mandate that they must provide coverage, but not necessarily ther same coverage the worker had when an employee. Most Americans have no idea about these loopholes, until they're in need and can lawfully be denied. In cases when an employee is eligible for continued coverage via COBRA, the employee pays for the health insurance coverage, not the employer.

When/if COBRA is in effect, one is only eligible for coverage for 18 months. Whoever said less is now wrong, as the new Obama stimulus package changed it. Also, now, the federal government reimburses the employer who pays the health insurance company for the continued coverage of the unemployed person; the goverment pays 65% and we must pay 35% of the total cost. This lasts 9 months. It's part of the new stimulus package. If we wish, we can also continue to pay 100% of the cost of the health coverage, for the next 9 months. After that - we're on our own.

Third: Unemployment is not, as someone posted, a flat percentage rate of anyone's salary, at least not everywhere. That's never been true and still is isn't true. Unempoyment varies from state to state.

In New Jersey, it's calculated at a rate of not more than 50% of one's base salary at the time of severance - no matter what the reason for the severance. If you were severed for no fault of your own, you are eligible to collect immediately, but if you were at fault, you must wait 13 weeks before becoming eligible to collect. And in NJ, it's capped at $525/month - and that's taxable, so you pay Uncle Sam, at that rate, income taxes of about 23% fo that. So you don't even get to keep that meager $525/month in your pocket... Unemployment can, if you are doing everything the state Dept of Labor asks of ou, last for 79 weeks. Nothing will continue your benefits past that.

Now, take our personal example. Hubby was earning $85K annually in 2008. That was a severe cut - about 35% cut from his 2007 earnings, and almost 50% from his 2006 earnings... but that's due to the ecomomy.

In January of 2009, he was still earning at a rate of what would have been $85K abbually. In February, he was laid off.

In our particular case, he couldn't even get an interview with Unemployment for 11 weeks, coz they were so backlogged. Once he got his interview, he was deemed eligible for benefits right away. It took another 2 or 3 weeks before his check came... so even though he was back-paid, we'd already spent most of what we had in investments, just trying to stay alive.

How many of you have enough money saved, that you could live for 14 weeks with NO INCOME before getting any income again?!
We were lucky...

Hubby's been awarded the highest amount one can receive from Unemployment -- that's $525 per month, plus an additional $50 check, thanks to President Obama's stimulus package for NJ.

So we must live on $575/week, when we had been living on approx. $1600/bimonthy. That's NOT easy!! And we also must pay $832 monthly, out of that unemployment, too, for our health insurance coverage via COBRA.
We must pay nearly $100/month, too, property taxes on our home. Thankfully, we owned our home free and clear before hubby lost his job.

So, the lifestyle that we're living right now is in fact less than what we might live in a third-world country.

We can't afford food, given the high cost of living here in Essex county, NJ. We can't afford medications. We can't afford anything but our most basic utility bills, our property taxes, and some food - but not enough.

There are no jobs right now for either hubby or me. The economy has ruined the companies for which we worked or might have worked. Worse -- hubby is 63 years old, almost 64. How likely, do any of you think, it is that anyone will hire him, at his age?

Does this ^ put things into perspective for you lucky folks who don't live n the USA?

greenchick - Jun 28, 2009 - 11:57 PM
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It certainly does! thanks for that explanation, Stephanie.
I live in Britain where we pay higher taxes (I pay 20% of mine and Steve, my husband, pays 40%) but we have health care no matter what. Some, non-urgent procedures you may have to wait for but otherwise it's pretty effiecient, or has been in my experience. Surely though, if you break a leg or something, an ambulance would pick you up and treat you even if you didn't have insurance? sorry to seem dim, just can't get my head round it!
I'm not familiar with the unemployment benefit system, as I haven't had to use it, touch wood! I could look it up if you're interested.
BTW, I'm not very good at Maths, but isn't $575 a week more than $1600 a month??

SMB - Jun 29, 2009 - 12:17 AM
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I wish I had 575 a week! Believe it or not, hubby and me could live very nicely on that.

Of course, we don't have children. Our monthly expenses are around 500.00 monthly, so heck, I could squirrel away 3 weeks worth of income and save for a new car, or even a new home.

And, yes, I realize that everyone's situation is different and what one person can live comfortably on, wouldn't be nearly enough for another.

Stephanie - Jun 29, 2009 - 12:23 AM
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greenchick wrote:

sorry to seem dim, just can't get my head round it!
I'm not familiar with the unemployment benefit system, as I haven't had to use it, touch wood! I could look it up if you're interested.

BTW, I'm not very good at Maths, but isn't $575 a week more than $1600 a month??

It is... I'm the one not very good at my math. lol

I edited to reflect what I meant to say: $1600 bimonthly - twice per month... on the 15th and the last day of each month.

If I fell and broke a leg, an ambulance might come to pick me up... but if they wanted to be paid for the transport and I refused to sign for the payment - then they can leave me there, in some cases. Ditto the hospital.
Regional trauma center hospitals must treat anybody no matter what; other hospitals need not treat anybody who can't or won't pay. Some ambulances - depending upon how the company is set up - must transport, but others need not transport non-paying people.

There is no "Right" to health care in the United States of America.

We are a free country, all right - but nothing is free here. Don't mistake the meaning of the word "free".
We ARE free... as in we have our freedom. nothng else here is free... as in "no cost". We must pay - and pay a LOT - for food, medical care, legal assistance, clothing, housing -- all the "basics" of life. Get it, now?

The sarcasm isn't directed at you, it's just..... *sigh* Never mind. I'm sorry.

Stephanie - Jun 29, 2009 - 01:02 AM
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SMB wrote:

I wish I had 575 a week! Believe it or not, hubby and me could live very nicely on that.

You think so?

Where do you live, if I might ask?

What do you pay for ---
health insurance? $863/m
property taxes? (no mortgage - we own free & clear) Almost $1000/m - why do I live in Essex county, NJ?
a quart of milk? or a half-gallon? $2.69/q & $36.9/ half gallon
a loaf of bread? approx. $3.89/loaf
a pound of chicken leg quarters? approx. 89¢ on sale or $1.19 regularly
peaches, nectarines, fresh vegetables? fresh produuce runs beween $2.99 and $8.99 per pound for most non-fancy produce - nothing exotic

I pay the following basic utilities (note - no cable or naything fancy, and the DSL is becauses hubby can't remain up-to-date with hopes of ever working again, without it - as he writes custom software).
Verizon - aprox. $2.69/m
Earthlink - $80/m (contract - can't get out of it)
AT&T Wireless - $89.95/m (contract - can't get out of it)
PSE&G (electric & gas) - $approx. $300/m - but that's before the summer and need for Air/Con
GEICO/car insurance - $289/m (and that's dirt-cheap in NJ!)
gasoline to drive either car or the truck - approx. $2.45/gal (thank God I live in NJ - the "Land of No Self-Serve" and still the cheapest statewide prices nationwide!)
[/b]

Stephanie - Jun 29, 2009 - 01:04 AM
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dbl post

Stephanie - Jun 29, 2009 - 01:14 AM
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SMB wrote:

Of course, we don't have children. Our monthly expenses are around 500.00 monthly, so heck, I could squirrel away 3 weeks worth of income and save for a new car, or even a new home.

Do you have a landline telephone?
Pay electric and/or gas bills?
Have or pay for health insurance coverage?
Have a car or cars? Pay insurance on them?
Own or rent?

Hubby is a senior, and I am handicapped with EDS: Our medical bills are significantly higher than those of healthy younger people.

I'm not attacking you. But if *I* can live on this income where YOU live - thenI'm moving there.

littlestar - Jun 29, 2009 - 01:42 AM
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Gee...I understand you aren't feeling very good about all of this, but you sure are quick to give "superior attitude" to someone else about what they relate of situations in their area....I don't mind constructive criticism, but you do get a bit touchy. Sorry for not keeping up to your standards of communication, but we don't work under the same system,as you are stating, in California.... I think Sue is used to the way I speak by now and she certainly knows I may only speak about the state I live in. She is of high intelligence and knows, by now, that each State varies in it's procedures and rules and I was simply giving her a rough idea of what happens here.
Nothing I said was untrue for my area. In California, it is calculated, as I said by the previous years earnings. The amount for benefits available is based on the claimant's earnings in the base period. To qualify for
benefits in California, a claimant must have (1) earned at least $1,300 in the highest quarter of the base period, or (2) have earned at least $900 in the highest quarter and earned total base period earnings of at least 1.25 times the high quarter earnings. For example, if the claimant has $900 earnings in the highest quarter, he/she is also required to have earned a total of $1,125 in the base period ($900 x 1.25 = $1,125).
The maximum amount of a regular UI claim is either 26 times the claimant's weekly benefit amount or one-half of the claimant's base period wages, whichever is LESS.
This requirement denies benefits to claimants whose earnings in a 12-month "base period" are below the minimum noted above on the assumption that low earnings indicate a short or temporary attachment
to the labor force. The "base period" is 12 months long, but it is important to think of it as 4 quarters of 3 months each. The quarter in which the highest wages were received determines the weekly benefit amount.
You can only collect if it is deemed to not be your fault that you were fired, there is a two week waiting period for submission and another two weeks for determination.
You are lucky that if it IS your fault that you got fired, that they get to become eligible after 13 weeks waiting. The amount in California is calculated on gross earnings and the maximum benefit is $450 week.Which is Taxable to Fed Income tax. The benefit is for up to six months UNLESS you are approved by the EDD for job training, then it can be extended to one year.
The stimulus funds to California will only be made available to those who qualify for retraining and Gov. Swartzie is trying to keep every cent he can from every program..at this point in time. Of course that didn't stop him from using quite a chunk of the Fed Stimulus Funds to buy computers, telephones and mobile filing/contact equipment for on site filing during Major Layoffs...in other words...he spent money on Office equip. and Staff.
AND...Federal legislation signed into law on February 17, 2009, allows for a weekly $25 stimulus payment. This $25 stimulus payment will be added to each week of UI benefits paid to eligible workers in California. The federal legislation states that these $25 stimulus payments are only payable for weeks of unemployment that start February 22, 2009, and after.
Effective immediately EDD will automatically add the $25 stimulus payment to each paid week of unemployment that starts on or after February 22, 2009, as part of the regular UI check.

Unemployed workers will continue to receive Unemployment Insurance (UI)benefits even though California’s UI Trust Fund has run out of money. The Federal Government provides loans to states so that UI benefits will not be interrupted.
On January 26, 2009, the California Employment Development Department (EDD) began borrowing from the federal government to pay UI benefits due to the insolvency of California's Unemployment Trust Fund.

Anyway, I would say that you are actually doing quite well, compared to allot of people I know, at an income of $3200 monthly. They can squeek by on that....

daisydownunder - Jun 29, 2009 - 02:00 AM
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Just as an example and I am sure you have no idea how we do it here in Australia , this is not a dig at any system, but to show you you are way behind with much needed help.

20 years Back I went on to a permanent invalid pension. that switched to a senior pension when I reached sixty five

From September I will receive

$1344 every 4 weeks as a single senior

A couple receives $2028
here is the budget for this year for pensions,
http://www.budget.gov.au/2009-10/conten ... iew_02.htm

This includes about $650 which is to help with Prescriptions utilities, and an allowance for Phone a year. I have to pay a nominal fee of $6.50 for any prescription ,And every man woman and child recieved a stimulus payment of $1000. I got $1400

There is also if I needed, it rates are cut in half for homes., and rent assistance for those renting homes

If I broke a hip I would be picked up by ambulance and taken to one of several hospitals, or if a road trauma for example I would be air lifted to the Bigger hospitals.

This would be free of charge as I am a senior, and I am on Medicare, but "anyone'' who needs help gets it, as GC said elective surgery you may have to wait but you are on a list. and this also if you are unable to insure yourself it is free.
How do we do it all. every wage earner has to pay a medibank levy. Not sure how much it is.

I might just add here if you were out of work, and there was none available, even with the help of our ''Centerlink social security'' ,you would have the same pension as above immediately (a lot more if you have kids) and NO limit. they would try to find jobs on their lists . but even young 16 year olds get help. they do have to wait several weeks though.

we do get a lot of American news and we see rallies for a fair go. and I have to say I am shocked at the money spent on wars and aid abroad. and people there need so much help.

I do understand it all, as my Daughter has been under the poverty line in the US for several years now. with little hope of it getting any better in the short term..

Daisy Smile

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 02:41 AM
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Stephanie wrote:

SMB wrote:

Of course, we don't have children. Our monthly expenses are around 500.00 monthly, so heck, I could squirrel away 3 weeks worth of income and save for a new car, or even a new home.

Sue is sleeping right now- but when she wakes up she will break things down.

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 03:07 AM
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Daisy, what you describe sounds heavenly. It's so much much nicer than anything I've experienced. Everything here is based upon your ability to pay.

One year, things were tough (recession) and I had to go to the emergency room with a bad kidney stone. After waiting over six hours for a doctor, one came into the room where I was- but he wasn't there about my kidney stone- his first question was about my insurance (none) and the second was how I was going to pay (I told him I had no income and didn't know). He got mad and PUNCHED ME IN THE AFFECTED KIDNEY. I almost fell off the table from the pain. It was his word against mine, so it went nowhere.

They sent me home and I passed it on my own a couple of days later.

As I remember, I got a SMALL prescription for Tylenol 3. It didn't do a thing for the pain and ran out before the stone passed. (I've had so many that I tend to ignore them UNLESS the pain stops me from "functioning".)

They're even worse about not listening to you if you're not rich. I won't go there now- but I will say that they didn't listen to me for over 20 years.

Last Thursday, I was asked to take part in a round table discussion about the medical care system and why it needs to be changed. The discussion was covered by a local radio station (which left a lot out). They did cover part of what I said (and every word is true!!!)

Here is a link to the news report including my part:

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/wmnfeven ... sr_252.MP3

My experiences have turned me into an activist for universal health care, or at least a system like Canada, England, or Australia have.

littlestar - Jun 29, 2009 - 04:02 AM
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What the HELL-O causes all these people to be so abusive toward you, Bob?
Kidney Stone, or not ,that guys balls would have been in his throat if he hit me like that !!!!

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:07 AM
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Most of my life, I was taught NOT to defend myself. In the churches I attended before I met Susan, it was SIN to not be "in submission" to authority. If I complained about bad treatment- I was punished (shamed or publicly "rebuked") or I was told "Let Go and Let God!" I even heard "It's all your fault"- even one time when an employer split my lip because I interrupted his private conversation (about angels) with a minor emergency. (In that case, the church ORDERED me not to sue and told me "Christians don't sue Christians!")

After we were married, the churches were all "Don't take the law into your own hands, respect your betters, turn the other cheek, forgive and forget, etc ..."

Plus, every time I try to defend myself, things got worse. I'm deathly afraid of the cops. I've learned that the "legal system" is untrustworthy. Based upon our experiences, there is a 50/50 chance if you're stopped, it's not because you did anything wrong- and speaking up for yourself only makes them mad.

If I tried to speak up in my defense in general, I was called a liar and rebellious and a troublemaker.

Combine that with having an income around minimum wage for most of your life, and it's a recipe for abuse- something I'm fighting against now.

Cat - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:17 AM
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I'm sorry, but I've lived in Australia. I didn't hate it there, but it had it's share of problems. My mother-in-law died because of the poor health care system, and my sister-in-law had a stroke because of it. My friend almost died in childbirth, and I could go on. I saw poor people, racism, all the things I've seen everywhere else.

I read about how the US is a third world country. I don't see that having seen cities in Mexico where there is a dump in the center of town, with people living in it. No food, no water, no toilets, no meds, no nothing. And putting together old tires, bits of tin, etc., for shelter. I've never seen anything like that here, am I missing something? And we've all seen the TV images in actual third world countries where kids are picking through garbage dumps with no shoes on, desperately trying to find food, or something to sell. Or the bloated bellies of starving kids. I actually think most of us are pretty blessed in comparison.

We will at some point lose our home. Okay, so what? We'll use the income to get by, and live in an apartment, and get by somehow. That's just life, and no one ever promised me it would be easy, or that someone else owed me anything. If it is really that awful here, why stay? A lot of people immigrate to the US to have a better life, so it is certainly possible to immigrate elsewhere to find a better life. I've been an immigrant to another country, and didn't care for it, but maybe others would.

daisydownunder - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:45 AM
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Quote:

I didnt say it was perfect Just we have a better deal:)

some times you just stand your ground.

Daisy Smile

Cat - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:06 AM
Post subject:

daisydownunder wrote:

Quote:

I didnt say it was perfect Just we have a better deal:)

somtimes you just stand your ground.

Daisy Smile

Not a better deal, Daisy, just a different deal. Very Happy

I had some great docs in Aus. I was absolutely floored by one doc in Queensland, who stayed after hours to talk to me. He actually gave up his free time to help me, just because he cared. You don't see that often, anywhere.

But the system there isn't better than here, again, just different. We have a lot of flaws with the health care system here, and sadly, it's getting worse. But to me, it seems more of an attitude change by a lot of the health care professionals. And I only see National Health making that worse here. I think the best answer might be a time machine...... Wink

ASB - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:15 AM
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The Medicare levy is 1.2% of your wages and high income earners who choose not to have their own insurance pay an extra 1% so the most you can pay is 2.2% of your wages on medical.

This covers everything except dental and ambulance cover which costs us about $150 per year for the family, the ambulance cover includes helicopter and air transport even from the snowfields.

Cat I would love to know what area in Australia you lived, I suspect Sydney because the Hospital system there is terrible, we are very fortunate here to have a top hospital and very good acces to doctors, much better than most country towns. We have a very good standard of living here, the envy of many. No one starves.

Cat - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:24 AM
Post subject:

ASB wrote:

Well, if you are saying that some areas of Australia have a high standard of living, and others don't, then I agree with you, and the same goes here.

I'm not trying to put down Aus, there is good and bad as there is here. But I don't like my home being put down either. It's a two way street. I've lived in several places in both countries, and there is always good and bad.

Our home was in Berowra, but the medical experiences I mentioned happened in several different areas.

greenchick - Jun 29, 2009 - 07:40 AM
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Stephanie wrote:

rdb wrote:

You do realise that Cuba has the same life expectancy as the USA and that our infant mortality rate is lower than yours, as is that of many other countries, mostly with "socialised" or "fair" as we like to call it, medicine?

Cat - Jun 29, 2009 - 08:29 AM
Post subject:

greenchick wrote:

Stephanie wrote:

rdb wrote:

Sue, I've got a friend in the UK, who has both arthritis and ITP. She has been on Enbrel for the arthritis, and it helps, but it has as a side effect a worsening of the ITP. This could be fatal. She would like to use Rituxan, but the health care system won't allow it, since Enbrel is "working", and much, much cheaper. I absolutely guarantee that here, she would be receiving Rituxan, and it would be paid for. So, how is your system better? It's not fair if you can be denied the appropriate meds by the government because of cost only.

greenchick - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:04 PM
Post subject:

I'm not saying our system is perfect and there is, unfortunately, some rationing which is deplorable when we seem to be able to find the money for military adventures overseas. I can't comment on your friend's case but I do know that bottom line, if you lose your job, you don't have to worry about getting treatment for an injury or a sickness. I know there are some aspects of US healthcare that are some of the best (I think France has the internationally recognised best overall system) but I would hate to live in a country where I knew my fellow citizens lived in fear of getting ill because they couldn't afford it which seems to be the case with some people on this board.
My father has had an aneurysm removed and a quadruple heart bypass on the NHS and he's on a pension.

Johnny_Turbo - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:10 PM
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greenchick wrote:

my fellow citizens lived in fear

Everybody lives in fear. An overwhelming fear that controls us to the point where we can no longer get out of bed in the morning. Such a great amount of fear that with every breath we take, we just know we've ingested a lethal germ. Our govt. needs to take care of us. I can't do it myself. There's a lot of blame to go around, so let's start finger-pointing ASAP!

Every time I don't feel safe, someone else should have to pay a price. I wish I could get to the point where I could convince people I'm afaid and not safe and they would have to pay me trillions of dollars.

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:17 PM
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Greenchick, you've hit the nail on the head for a great many Americans.

Their SURVIVAL depends on not getting sick. Others are reduced to poverty and even begging because they got ill, while their better-off neighbors sneer at them because they don't have insurance and can't afford it.

A good book is "Nickled and Dimed: On NOT Getting by in America"

The system here is cruel and heartless towards those who have a hard time, while supportive of those who have money.

(There is something seriously wrong with a system where most of the citizens are only two or three paychecks away from being homeless at all times.)

Johnny_Turbo - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:25 PM
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There should be some compensation to those who never use the system. There's no govt. reward for healthy living. There's no fed govt. reward for being green either. If you're gonna penalize people for being fat, or having a carbon footprint, it makes sense to reward those who follow orders, like The Third Reich.

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 05:39 PM
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JT- is obesity a SYMPTOM or a CAUSE???

If you say cause- you're blaming the victim.

If you say SYMPTOM, you've at least read some of the research.

Medically caused obesity is far more prevalent than the average citizen would think. Based upon my own observations, most morbidly obese people eat far less than skinny people- and are as active as they can stand to be. Fat is not synonymous with lazy or gluttonous. It IS synonymous with bad health- and I would argue that bad health STARTED the obesity.

Indeed, I'm starting to be of the opinion that overeating only causes one to be a little overweight- and people who are really obese have some underlying medical condition that hasn't been diagnosed, much less treated.

Let's put it this way- when I was finally diagnosed with FMS, the doctor told me that if the medicines worked, I would loose weight.

I went from a TIGHT size 56 pants to size 44, and lost over a hundred pounds. The medicines, by the way- only help a little. I'd bet if they'd come up with something that took care of 100% of the symptoms I have, and that cured the source of the problem- my weight would drop to what would be considered normal. (I'd also love to experience some pain-free days- and the idea of a *mostly* pain-free life would be like heaven to me!!!)

People sometimes still try to tell me "If you'd loose the weight, you'd feel better!" - which gets them a lecture about medically caused obesity if I'm in a good mood- and foul language and being told they are blindly prejudiced and IGNORANT if I'm not.

I will also add that poor diet (a low-cost diet) is also associated with obesity. In this case- if you jump on the person for being fat, you're also punishing them for being poor.

greenchick - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:01 PM
Post subject:

Have to disagree with you there, Bob! I think there are definitely some conditions that cause weight gain and for some people food is an addiction like any other, but most people who are significantly overweight eat too much of the wrong things and don't do enough exercise. Some people have slower metabolisms, but if you take in less than you expend, you will lose weight...

SMB - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:05 PM
Post subject:

greenchick wrote:

I only have half of a thyroid, so it is very hard for me to loose weight. I have been loosing, but very, very slowly. The kind of diet that would help me best is somewhat expensive, so I have had to compromise. Also, stress can interfere with digestion, causing the body not to absorb the nutrients properly.

Johnny_Turbo - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:18 PM
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greenchick wrote:

Everything is an addiction. Breathing is an addiction and people should receive free medical care for it. Drinking water is an addiction and the govt. should give us money to go to the doctor. The more people we can have to become dependant on the govt., the better. The world needs more pills.
I have an addiction to sleep. Every night about 11:00, I get tired and fall into a coma for about 7 hours. Sometimes 8 or 9 hours. I worry that some day, I won't wake up and I need treatment for it. The govt. needs to give me money.

littlestar - Jun 29, 2009 - 06:51 PM
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HMMMM...I know this...I have tipped the scales at 100 lbs or less most of my life, at 5'5"...that was always a little light. When the IBS and CFIDS starting getting really bad...I experienced malabsorption and still contend with it.
This leads to thyroid problems and the inability to lose whatever toxic fat deposits accrue. In the last 3 years, post stroke, I have gained a third of my body weight and I hardly eat the equivalent of ONE American standard daily meal. I look at myself and see the fat that has come from being unable to DO all the activity I once took for granted or eat the foods I once enjoyed. Fat and toxins (cellulite) do have a Health basis...it isn't all from overeating or lack of exercise only..... some even come from the steroids the Drs. prescribe....I know, because I'm living it...

greenchick - Jun 29, 2009 - 07:27 PM
Post subject:

SMB wrote:

greenchick wrote:

That's why I said that some people have medical conditions that prevent them from maintaining a healthy weight. Others are just plain greedy!

windslipper - Jun 29, 2009 - 07:37 PM
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I would like to thank all of you for your candid comments...
In this thread I have actually learned things about not only the States but Canada our Neighbor up North, the UK and the Land Down Under..... I have learned about the Poor, The Newly Poor and those who fear that they will be Poor in the near Future...
Healthcare, Income, loss of Income.... worry for Ourselves and/or our Loved Ones... Those who just squeek by and those who revert to dining on Pet Food....

Again....Thank You All...

Dan

Johnny_Turbo - Jun 29, 2009 - 07:46 PM
Post subject:

rdb wrote:

I think obesity is a fact of life. We're all different and people who are overweight shouldn't be punished by a healthcare system that knocks them for being who they are.

Fat people can lead long, healthy lives. A skinny person can be very unhealthy. I see a healthcare system that's trying to push an agenda and penalize overweight people and at the same time, it fails to reward those who abide by their Third Reich mentality.

The more the govt. creeps into our lives, the more they screw things up for all of us. Less govt, less taxes will lead us to prosperity. More govt., more taxes lead us to debt and mis-management of funds.

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 09:30 PM
Post subject:

JT, it's been shown that the government is usually not the source of "trouble"- and at the same time it can PREVENT troubles.

Problems like what we (Sue and I) face are caused by (1) the false stereotypes of fat=greedy and lazy (and FMS=lazy and malingering), when that's not the case and (2) conservatives want to cut out the leeches, so they make the rules harder- but the leeches find ways around the rules so people who really NEED help get cut out. The problem is, there are far far less leeches on the system than the (WRONG) public perception- and lots of deserving and hurting people are left in the cold. (Why do you think that suicide is epidemic among the poor and homeless these days? They can't find employment, and people constantly tell them "Get a Job!!!" That sort of abuse also extends to seeking medical care.)

I would say that the real leeches on the system aren't the lazy people sitting at home and drawing welfare, or the person with chronic medical problems who depends on the system. The real leeches are the crooked doctors and businessmen who deliberately scam the system- for loads of money (usually in the many millions of dollars). We just had another big scam system busted up here in Florida that had taken several million dollars from Medicare. That happens quite frequently, sad to say- and while they are eventually caught, everyone looks to the individual who needs help as the source of the problem- rather than the rich scam artists. That, by the way, is the main reason public housing hasn't worked all that well- rich scam artists who bilk the system.

You might be surprised how many of the "government programs" have been turned over to businesses to be run- and a lot of the money being turned over goes right into the pockets of the owners- the rich (and as we learn, many of those are scams).

It's also been proved that a government agency is often more cost efficient than a business, because the focus is on helping people and not making a profit. For one thing- more people are employed (at usually a better income) than working for one of those "farm-out" agencies. More money gets into the hands of the people who need it as well.

I might add that it took government action to give African-Americans their rights, and it took government action to protect those rights (and let me tell you- if the government doesn't keep the bigots under control, minorities WILL loose their rights!) It took Federal Government action before we gained the right to exist. It took Government action to force business owners into treating their employees like human beings. If your health goes to hell, you can't expect anyone EXCEPT the government to provide you any sort of long-term assistance. Forget the NGO's and other organizations.

So, to quote President Obama- government can be part of the solution- and based upon all the research and reports I've read- it HAS to be.

rdb - Jun 29, 2009 - 09:40 PM
Post subject:

I might add- all of the bad treatment I've gotten (with two exceptions) from doctors has always been with the "for-profit" sector.

The two exceptions- (1) a "for profit" doctor who was a friend BEFORE I learned he was a doctor- and who saw first hand what I go through. He finally got tired of seeing me trying to cope and not always succeeding, so he asked me who my doctor was. I told him I didn't have a doctor because none of them listened to me. Within an hour of seeing him a few days later, he had a diagnosis of severe FMS. That, by the way, was confirmed by a neurologist. (2) a government doctor who told me quote "There's nothing wrong with you 'cept you're FAT!" She was incompetent- didn't know a thing about FMS. She was the only bad experience I had with someone in the government system.

I've always been treated very well by the (government) health system at school, except they're a bit of a pain to see (you have to sit and wait and wait to see a nurse- and then sit and wait and wait to see a doctor if the nurse thinks it requires a doctor's attention). They LISTEN. That isn't what I experienced in the "for profit" medical sector of the economy.

Cat - Jun 30, 2009 - 02:21 AM
Post subject:

I'm not going to encourage anyone to gain weight here, but I sometimes wonder if the whole weight issue isn't overplayed.

My dad is one of five boys. One of my uncles died of cancer in his 40's. Another two of my uncles are currently undergoing chemo, both are stage four cancer victims. Another uncle has successfully (hopefully) battled his cancer.

My dad is the only one who has not developed cancer, and he is the healthiest of them all (and not the youngest). He is overweight by quite a bit, and will probably live the longest.

So, do I eat to live, or live to eat? Or do I just stuff chocolate into my mouth until such time as it either kills me, or I discover it causes us to live forever? Now there's a scary thought ~ me being around for a long time yet........ Shocked

daisydownunder - Jun 30, 2009 - 02:41 AM
Post subject:

Cat wrote:

Saw a 117 year Old man on the news and he loves Chocolate

Maybe this is the answer . Eat more chocolate Smile

daisy

Gornman - Jun 30, 2009 - 02:59 AM
Post subject:

I'm doing OK in this economy Idea

I help keep a small business running. Times are slow but we pay the bills.

We pay the Government out of every orifice, but that's OK as
long as they don't come in and say, we'll tell you how to run this
business anymore than they do now.

The past tax-cuts have helped a lot. I hope they continue Idea

/not holding my breath
//just hoping Idea

windslipper - Jun 30, 2009 - 08:26 PM
Post subject:

I'll drink to that!

Dan
Twisted Evil

vampyregirl - Jul 01, 2009 - 01:47 AM
Post subject:

Our police dept and the city have a tenative contract agreement as of last night. I'm extremely anxious to see what they had to give up---it will directly impact my job. I may be looking at a 15% cut out of my paycheck!!! NOT GOOD!!!! My monthly budget is based on the wages I make now. I don't indulge in frivilous things nearly as much as I used to. I haven't bought new clothing in quite some time (I have to wear a uniform to work, and they provide the crappy thing). Once in a while I do splurge, but it's on useful things. Not anymore!!!

I just called my tv provider and got rid of a $10 package that I don't even watch. I printed out the package I have and another smaller one to compare channels. I may be going to the smaller one next month, depending on the cuts the police are going to be taking.

15% out of my check is roughly around $300 a month. That would be my motorcycle payment (bought only because I could afford it) and half of my car payment (which is a 2003). I'm scrambling trying to think of ways to cut corners even more. I already have the lowest priced phone and internet service (package deal). I did just find out my car and m.c. insurance is dropping about $50 a year each (every penny counts, so I'm not knocking it!!!). My natural gas price (furnace, hot water tank, etc) is going down starting July 1st, so that will help.

I know I will be alright, but I'm just a huge worry-wart when it comes to my finances. I've finally managed to get some $$$ in my savings account, and now I may have to be dipping into it to pay monthly bills.... That thought doesn't make me a happy camper!!!

Oh, well. We'll see. We have a union meeting on Thursday, so we may be getting some information then. Sigh.....

Stephanie - Jul 01, 2009 - 09:47 PM
Post subject:

rdb wrote:

There is something seriously wrong with a system where most of the citizens are only two or three paychecks away from being homeless at all times.

How true that is!

Sorry to anyone whose posts I may have missed in this thread - but it's getting out of hand and I'm pretty sure I missed a couple of pages.

The bottom line, I think, is that no one's system is perfect, and people fall through the cracks of each.
That, and that there is indeed something ver wrong when most of a country's citizens are 2 or 3 paychecks from being homeless and without basic medical care and don't have enough food & clothing to survive.

vampyregirl - Jul 02, 2009 - 04:50 AM
Post subject:

Stephanie wrote:

rdb wrote:

There is something seriously wrong with a system where most of the citizens are only two or three paychecks away from being homeless at all times.

I agree whole-heartedly!!!!!

Andarion - Jul 02, 2009 - 10:45 PM
Post subject: star trek economy

They use credits on earth,and im not sure what that is.But as long as theirs plenty of resources,theres plenty for something beyond money.   Having various worlds  resources  and not just earth,will make earth more prosperous.  Credits are for trade like money but maybe more for peoples use and not as hard to earn or desperate as money was in ages past.  Federation gives out the credits to everyone monthly,most likely.  Housing is bountiful,with more worlds to live on.

greenchick - Jul 03, 2009 - 08:37 AM
Post subject:

Is there an interpreter in the house??

Johnny_Turbo - Jul 03, 2009 - 01:49 PM
Post subject:

greenchick wrote:

Is there an interpreter in the house??

That would be The Tanner. Don't spend more money than you earn or take in tax revenue.

windslipper - Jul 10, 2009 - 05:04 AM
Post subject:

Fascinating!

D
Twisted Evil