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Old William Shatner Main Discussion - A controversial topic

britstarfan - Sep 03, 2008 - 04:30 PM
Post subject: A controversial topic

Action over 'indecent' Jesus art '

An art gallery is facing a trial at crown court over claims it displayed an indecent statue of Jesus Christ. The artwork was part of an exhibition at Gateshead's Baltic Centre featuring several plaster figures with erections.

A private prosecution is being brought by Christian group member Emily Mapfuwa, 40, of Essex, on the grounds the statue outraged public decency. The gallery elected to have the case sent to a higher court from Gateshead Magistrates' Court on Tuesday.

The statue was part of Baltic's September 2007 to January 2008 exhibition by the controversial Chinese-born Homosexual artist Terence Koh, entitled "Gone, Yet Still".

'This statue served no other purpose than to offend Christians and to denigrate Christ' said a Christian Legal Centre .Mrs Mapfuwa, of Brentwood, instructed her lawyers to seek a private prosecution against the gallery for outraging public decency and causing harassment alarm and distress to the public. Godfrey Worsdale, who is due to take over as the gallery's director in November, said he could not comment on the legal action

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7593386.stm

Do you think statues like this are an offence to Christians and Christianity, or are they simply Art,and an expression of the artists creative process, and should just be accepted as that.

A photo of the Art work can be seen at http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 677221.ece

thoughts..?

Gornman - Sep 03, 2008 - 04:38 PM
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My thoughts?

Make a questionable image of Jesus and the reaction is...

Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, this is art

Make a questionable image of Mohammed?

How offensive, how intolerant, this is blasphemy

Let's have one playing field, a level one at that...

Idea

Johnny_Turbo - Sep 03, 2008 - 05:00 PM
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I'd say the artist's style is rather stiff. I'd rather see something that thrusts itself from the conventional mold. Something that stands straight up and points to a definite style of sculpture.

If he doesn't receive govt. funding from taxpayers, I don't think it should be taken away. I don't like it too much, but I'm not offended. People take offense too easily these days. maybe some even feign offense.

Back in the 80's, I think there was this controversial photo from Maplethorpe, Piss Christ. The problem was the govt. was giving him money.

Gorn is right. You should be able to bust on Islam as well as other religions...if that's what gives you a hard-on.

What ever happened to book burning?

greenchick - Sep 03, 2008 - 05:09 PM
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I would like to know what the artist's intentions were before I could comment usefully.
Islam, yadda yadda....it's not banned to comment on Islam in any way you see fit, it's just some of its followers might give you a harder time than most Christians....

Johnny_Turbo - Sep 03, 2008 - 05:18 PM
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a "harder" time! Good one, greenchick!! Why do you think the yadda, yadda Islam follower would have more of a problem? Do you think they're more militant?

My guess would be he's trying to be offensive, so the best reaction would be a stoic one, maybe.

britstarfan - Sep 03, 2008 - 05:38 PM
Post subject:

greenchick wrote:

The Baltic said at the time ( January 2008) it had ''no plan to remove the offending work. Koh is trying to explain all the things which have meant something to him,” said a gallery spokesman. “It is a sort of mausoleum.”

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 137653.ece

To me ,that does not really explain much though, about what he was thinking, or what the point of the statues actually,was. Is there a serious message, about the ties between religion and humanity, or were they just for ' shock' value, to poke fun at the overly pius and to start a controversy. Question

Gornman - Sep 03, 2008 - 05:50 PM
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greenchick wrote:

it's just some of its followers might give you a harder time than most Christians....

Ya know, I was just teaching in Sunday school class

and the meek shall inherit the Holy hand grenade of Antioch

littlestar - Sep 03, 2008 - 06:59 PM
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It's sort of a de-evolutionary look at art of the Gods...
Ancient statues of the dieties always had them erect and overendowed..

That's Misogyny for ya...always overdoing it too...

SMB - Sep 03, 2008 - 09:57 PM
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Doesn't look like the Jesus I know. Heck, he doesn't even look Jewish. But, the statue in the back right sorta looks like Worf.

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11-12

I make it a point to respect others' beliefs and religious practices. Only God can know what it truely in their hearts and is the only one who will judge them.

I only hope that if someone accuses me of being a Christian, that they find enough evidence to convict me. Cool

On a more legal note, that man reminds me of the preachers who come on our campus and start insulting everyone who walks by, calling them sinners, sluts, and some things I would get banned for posting here (yes, that bad). Their sole purpose for doing so has nothing to do with anything religious. What their main agenda is, is to make themselves so obnoxious that someone says something to them or even arrests them, simply so they can turn a sue the university for breach of freedom of speech. I suspect this fellow may have the same agenda in mind.

Jami - Sep 03, 2008 - 10:48 PM
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"Art" like this is solely intended to create publicity by being insulting and degrading. Mostly because the artist has no real talent or vision therefore he or she has to go for the cheapest way to get people to buy their crap. Destroy it. Leave them penniless like the talentless deserve to be.

Cat - Sep 04, 2008 - 04:10 AM
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Johnny_Turbo wrote:

I'd say the artist's style is rather stiff. I'd rather see something that thrusts itself from the conventional mold. Something that stands straight up and points to a definite style of sculpture.

*snicker*

Cat - Sep 04, 2008 - 04:12 AM
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I just thought it was stupid, and didn't show much imagination (or perhaps a tad too much.....) or talent. Too silly for me to find it offensive.

It is forbidden to show images of Mohammoud, so if he had been depicted, they would have issued a death threat against the artist. Slightly more of an aggressive response than the Christians gave.......

AquinasWI - Sep 04, 2008 - 05:16 AM
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Cat wrote:

Christianity make have its extremes like any faith, but Islam seems to take the gold medal in having the most whackos on the extreme end.

I don't particularly dig these "criticisms" of my faith, but I'm not about to go violent about it. I'm used to it. It's fashionable to bash Christianity, and Christians by and large can take it.

BWW - Sep 04, 2008 - 09:50 AM
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AquinasWI wrote:

Very well put.

SMB - Sep 04, 2008 - 01:22 PM
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BWW wrote:

AquinasWI wrote:

Very well put.

We just get a bit nervouse around lions and tigers. Laughing

angel - Sep 04, 2008 - 01:26 PM
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Yes, the lions and tigers can be a problem and not to mention the bears, oh my! For the most part we do very well against prejudice. Cool

Seamus - Sep 04, 2008 - 01:33 PM
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AquinasWI wrote:

Very well put indeed.

Smile

Let us not forget however that before we became more civilized even Christians went through some seriously extremist events...

Does everybody remember learning about the Spanish Inquisition? The Crusades?

On a side note... Does anyone know for sure that Jesus didn't have an appendage that size? no. If we call this piece of art into question, don't we also have to call into question every piece of art where Jesus is depicted as a Caucasian male since the people in the area where Jesus was born into were noticeably not Caucasian?

BWW - Sep 04, 2008 - 01:59 PM
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SMB wrote:

BWW wrote:

AquinasWI wrote:

Very well put.

We just get a bit nervouse around lions and tigers. Laughing

And bears? Oh my Shocked

Seamus - Sep 04, 2008 - 02:01 PM
Post subject:

BWW wrote:

SMB wrote:

BWW wrote:

AquinasWI wrote:

Very well put.

We just get a bit nervouse around lions and tigers. Laughing

And bears? Oh my Shocked

"I don't think we're in Kansas anymore Toto."

britstarfan - Sep 05, 2008 - 04:12 PM
Post subject:

SMB - Sep 05, 2008 - 04:41 PM
Post subject:

Seamus wrote:

AquinasWI wrote:

Very well put indeed.

Smile

Here is a rendering made by a team of scientists using an ancient Israeli skull and modern forensic type methods.

SMB - Sep 05, 2008 - 05:07 PM
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britstarfan wrote:

In many ways I think that the Spanish Inquisition was more damaging than Hitler. Some may argue that with me, but think about it. People were forced to convert or die, children were stolen from their homes and taken to be raised elsewhere and forced into a belief system that was not theirs. In fact, their true identity and heritage were stolen from them.

I cannot help but wonder how many people are living amongst us now who are decendents of those people. In many ways, the damage that was done to their ancestors those many years ago continues to this day.

I somehow do not believe that is what Jesus had in mind. Unfortunately, some governmental leaders of the time saw an opportunity to use his basic teachings for political gain, rather than to make the necessary internal changes that could stop the hatred and bring about peace.

That is why, in my opinion, you see paintings (some famous) of Jesus and his followers who suspiciously resemble the members of the reigning royal families of the time they were painted.

Side note: If I had posted this on some of the religious sites I visit now and then, I would be sent packing because many folks are so hard nosed and set in their ways that any deviation from their views is considered unexceptable and heretical. I don't expect everyone to agree with what I just posted, but I am glad that we can discuss this here. That is what I like about this BBS. I hope we never change. I appreciate the diversity. It keeps me from becoming too lop-sided in my beliefs. Cool

littlestar - Sep 05, 2008 - 07:27 PM
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WOW..The Church of Rome, being as misogynic as it is, certainly turned
the visage of Jesus into a Pretty Boy...
just like they changed the ancient writings...

I do NOT consider it a slap at Christianity to tell someone
not to proselytize to me....

britstarfan - Sep 08, 2008 - 12:22 PM
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Representatives for the Baltic Centre for Contemporary Art pleaded not guilty to charges of offending public decency for displaying this sculpture by Terence Koh.

http://www.artinfo.com/news/story/28472 ... c-decency/

rdb - Sep 08, 2008 - 03:15 PM
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I saw the photograph of that "art"- and to me it just looked like a bunch of misshaped piles of clay, that for the most part didn't look like any sort of art. My gut reaction was that kindergartners could do better "art"- and I'd probably find it more attractive.

I've heard that some art teachers consider art to be anything that causes an emotional reaction in people. I don't agree with them- if it causes me to feel disgust or nausea, then it's not art.

There's another aspect to this controversy that also bothers me. Considering that I've talked with gay Christians over the past couple of years at great length, I think that quite a few of them might find the "artwork" disturbing- overly sex-focused and possibly offensive (IF they could make out the human figures). I think that things like this set off the false stereotype about gay people- that they're hedonistic and only focused on sex. Based upon my gay friends I can safely say that nothing could be further from the truth.

Cat - Sep 08, 2008 - 03:41 PM
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britstarfan wrote:

I didn't find the first group offensive, just badly done.

But, that latest one I actually do find offensive. And it says the artist also has done Mickey Mouse and ET with, er, stiffy's? I can't decide if that artist needs a therapist, or a good swift kick in the ass. I'm thinking the latter.

And I agree with Bob, it's got nothing to do with being gay, it's got everything to do with poor judgement. If Koh really likes to represent important "people" in his life in this fashion, can we assume we will soon see him mom and grandma the same way? Rolling Eyes

littlestar - Sep 09, 2008 - 12:08 AM
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MOM and GRANDMA...with a "STIFFY"...OH MY !!!!!

Cat - Sep 09, 2008 - 12:13 AM
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littlestar wrote:

MOM and GRANDMA...with a "STIFFY"...OH MY !!!!!

I don't know if that is any worse than picturing Mickey Mouse with "an aroused member". Yikes! Imagine Disneyland handing out "Mouse members" to the kids instead of the Mickey ears. Shocked

And what grandparents wouldn't want to see their little grandkids in pics standing next to an aroused Mickey in front of Cinderellas Castle! Razz

Gornman - Sep 09, 2008 - 12:29 AM
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A sometimes marvel at the efforts of those
trying to conjure a physical description of Jesus.

Have they read the book?

The absence of a physical description in the Bible
screams volumes. Why?

Because it doesn't matter.

The only physical description I know of is in Isaiah 53
and that is more prophecy than description

rdb - Sep 09, 2008 - 01:12 AM
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Gornman wrote:

I wish more people thought like you about this. I've heard people many times insisting that Teyose (aka Jesus) was a fair-skinned Northern-European looking person... and condemning anyone who didn't agree.

They tend to pitch fits at any picture that has Him looking like an African-American or Native American- and often start getting very racist.

SMB - Sep 09, 2008 - 01:15 AM
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Gornman wrote:

There is another description in Revelation 1:14:

Quote:

His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.

But you are right. If we who believe and strive to live the Christian life were to treat each person the same way we would treat Jesus if it were Him, we might see some major changes taking place.

Quote:

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Matthew 25:40

Being a Christian isn't as easy as it looks, and boy do we make mistakes!